Anti-Military Lawyer Damages Marine's Car on Eve of Deployment

Posted By Blackfive

NOTE:  Jay Grodner pled guilty.  An important update is posted here.

This ought to make your blood boil.  And this Marine should receive a commendation for not kicking the living crap out of the guy...seriously.

Marine Sgt Mike McNulty is on activation orders to Iraq (second tour).  On December 1st, 2007, Mike went to visit a friend in Chicago before deploying to say goodbye.  In order to get to his friend's residence, and keep in mind that Chicago is a myriad of diagonal and one-way streets, the front entrance (right way) to the one-way street was blocked.  Mike, being a Marine, overcame and adapted by driving around the block to the other end of the street and backing up all the way to his friend's place. 

While saying goodbye, at about 11am, he noticed a man leaning up against his car. Mike left his friend's apartment and caught the man keying his car on multiple sides.

After caught in the process, the man told Mike, "you think you can do whatever you want with Department of Defense license plates and tags".  (In Illinois you can purchase veteran, Marine, or medal plates.  Mike has Illinois Marine Corps license plates.)  During the exchange, he made additional anti-military comments.

Mike called the Chicago police and had the man arrested. A citation against the man was issued for misdemeanor criminal damage to private property.

The police report (and I have copies if needed) states:

Victim related to P/O that as he walked back to his vehicle, he observed the offender leaning up against his vehicle and rubbed/dragged his left arm and hand across the passenger side.  As offender walked away from victim's vehicle, victim observed a scratch along the rear trunk and passenger's door area where offender dragged his arm and hand over.  Victim and witness stopped offender and confronted him.  Victim has military plates and decals on his vehicle and offender made anti war and military comments to victim.  Upon P/O's arrival to scene, offender denied scratch victim's vehicle, but did admit to rubbing past it.  Victim at this time did not sign complaint, because he is leaving tour for military duty.  Offender said they accused him of scratching the car because he is Jewish.  Offender's statements/responses to P/O's questions unreasonable.      

As it turns out, the man is Chicago lawyer Jay R. Grodner, who owns a law firm in the city and has offices in the suburbs.

After sending the car to the body shop, it was determined there is $2400 in damage, making this a felony. Mike went to court Friday morning to collect the damages against Mr. Grodner and file felony charges. Though the damages are over $300 (the amount which determines felony or misdemeanor) Grodner offered Mike to pay his deductible, $100, and have Mike's insurance pay for it.

The Illinois States Attorneys tried to coerce Mike into accepting the offer. Appalled, Mike said he wanted this to be a felony. The state told Mike that it was not worth pursuing felony damage against Grodner because they don't have the time. In addition, the state prosecutors told him that he would never it 'would be difficult to recover the damages' from Grodner because he is a lawyer.

Instead, the State asked Mike if he would accept probation for Grodner. Mike accepted, probation was offered to Grodner, and Grodner declined the offer, saying within ear shot of Mike, "I'm not going to make it easy on this kid". Mike's next court date is tomorrow, Monday, December 31st, to pursue misdemeanor charges against Grodner.

Mike's leave is over on January 2nd when he reports to Camp Pendleton before heading to Iraq.

Jay Grodner knows this and is going to file for a continuance until Mike is gone and cannot appear in court.

By account of the Illinois State's Attorneys, Grodner is likely to get away with defacing Mike's car with no penalty because, 1) Mike is about to deploy to Iraq and will not be available to appear in court, and 2) Grodner is a lawyer and can get out of this very easily.

So, does anyone have any ideas about how to proceed?  All peaceful and rational ideas are welcomed.  We are contacting the media about this, too.

Please pass this story on to anyone you know that might be able to help.

Update 12-31-07 1000 CST:  The hearing is today.  After about four hundred emails offering help, I've taken down the email address for now.  If I haven't sent you a reply, I apologize and hopefully will send one soon. 

I will post updates as they occur.  There are several options and we'll see what happens in court first before Mike decides on the next move.

And, BTW, a sincere thanks to all the Chicago Police Officers for their advice and offers.

Let me be clear.  I do not want anyone to harass the lawyer, threaten him, damage his property or propose any other illegal suggestion.  We can win this one clean and fair - one way or another...

Update 12-31-07 2000 CST:  A Blackfive reader sends this update about the hearing today...

Attn:  Black Five

I am writing to produce an update of the results of Sgt McNulty's case against Jay R Grodner.  I was present in support of Mike and thought you may be interested in an update for this story.   

Sgt McNulty was called forward by the State's Attorney in order to discuss the case.  I am not sure what transpired behind the closed doors, however, I overheard the State's Attorney expressing her intent to prosecute this guy to the fullest extent.   It seems as if BlackFive is the sole catalyst to this story getting out and I am sure Sgt McNulty has probably heard the effect of yours and other blogs from the results of today's proceedings to include several Marines and civilians who showed up in his support.

Jay R Grodner was called before court and in his absence, the Judge issued a warrant for his arrest effective immediately.   Sgt McNulty was departing the court when Grodner rolled in to the courtroom more pathetic than anyone I had ever seen.  The Judge had questioned him on his tardiness and he explained that traffic had been busy and he 'made a wrong turn'.   The Judge chastised him for his tardiness, pathetic excuses, and that he was lucky the warrant had not been executed prior to his arrival. 

It seems the blogosphere has put the ball in Sgt McNulty's court.  Furthermore, it is also apparent that the State's Attorney's Office has decided to take this matter on a much more serious level.   A new and very aggressive State's Attorney seems to have a genuine interest in pursuing this case to the extent that it warrants. 

A lot of good people deserve our thanks today.  Thousands responded with emails and phone calls and some even went to support Mike at the hearing.  Thank you.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - Blackfive and military blogs have the best readers on the planet - we really are a true community. 

And, long time regular TB, sends this link to a Free Republic reader who also attended the hearing and provides a report.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to ring in the New Year.  Twelve years ago, Mrs. Blackfive (before the "Mrs.") and I had our first date, and our first kiss was at midnight.  We have a tradition to maintain.

Thank you!  And have a Happy New Year!

Update 01-03-08: The Chicago Tribune's John Kass has a column up about the incident.

Comments

[MO]

HEre is my suggestion - give him a call or drop him an email.

http://www.genelex.com/paternitytesting/paternityfamlawdir.html#IL

Jay R. Grodner
Law Offices of Jay R. Grodner
Principal Office-Deerfield
625 Deerfield Road –Suite 406
Deerfield, IL 60015
Phone: (847) 444-1500
Fax: (847) 444-0663
Downtown Chicago
30 N. LaSalle St. - Suite 1210
Chicago, IL 60602
Phone: (312) 236-1142
Fax: (312) 236-6036
Email: jayrg8@aol.com
Web: http://www.jaygrodner.com
I have 30 years experience in handling paternity cases in Illinois in Public & Private Practice starting as a prosecutor prior to the admissibility of parental blood testing.

[defendusa]

First, let me say, assshole!! Then, I will say that since my better half is now working in Chicago, remind me never to use that law firm.
Is it possible to get power of attorney to someone so they could take care of this-be a stand-in? How about use video depositions or testimony? I know not much, but it's a thought.

[defendusa]

I emailed him and said he was a despicable excuse for a lawyer. Right will always win out somehow. This weasel needs to be taken to the woodshed for an assskicking.

[Howard9353]

Although pursuing a criminal case might feel good, ultimately the prosecutor will decide to go forward or not, and this one doesn't sound like he cares enough. Sure, you could try to do a Hannity/Limbaugh/Bennett-style media blitz against him, and shame the proscutuor into, you know, prosecuting, but it'll be tough. However, you have one advantage: this lawyer, is not just a jack ass, he's also a little too sure of himself, which sets him up for some low-level legal guerrila warfare:

1.) Report the jerk to the Illinois State Bar (or whatever it's called). Lawyers are ostensibly supposed to be officers of the court and conduct themselves with a modicum of maturity. It's true! Anyway, the State Bar is charged with enforcing those standards. He probably won't be disbarred or suspended, but he will have to answer some questions.

2.) Related: contact some Illinois-based legal publications. They love to do "lawyers-run-amok" stories. SOMEONE- a colleague, law school professor, judge, court clerk - and shake their head in disgust.

3.) Sue the jerk in civil court to reimburse you for the $2400 in damage. Not as sexy as a felon case, maybe, but it just might be sweeter, because you will become his creditor, meaning you can attach his property, garnish his wages, and generallly be a pain in the ass for at least 10 years. I would strongly recommend bringing the case in Small Claims Court because he won't be able to do any goofball procedural tricks AND he'll have to represent himself, meaning you guys will be going "mano-a-mano."

4.) Don't stalk him or harrass him, BUT you can probably get away with one "surprise" encounter at his club/gym/barbershop/whatever. Make a big show of recognizing him, shaking his hands, slapping his back, and loudly discussing the last time you two met.

5.) If you do sue him, have your biggest Marine buddy serve him at his office, while wearing a full dress uniform or combat fatigues. To make sure he's there, make an appointment (make something up, but be sure it's something in his practice area), and then serve the guy when he shakes your buddy's hand. He won't realize he's being served until it's too late!

6.) Disassemble his Prius (just a guess) and reassemble it in the high school gymnasium. Oh wait, that's to get back at the football coach.

[OldSoldier54]

How perfectly like so many of those left leaning folks ... laws are for the *little* people.

[Mr.Sparkle]

"5.) If you do sue him, have your biggest Marine buddy serve him at his office, while wearing a full dress uniform or combat fatigues."

LOL, holy shit mate that's the best idea ever.

"How perfectly like so many of those left leaning folks ... laws are for the *little* people." OldSoldier NOBODY likes jackass lawyers (has anybody ever met a lawyer who wasn't a douche?).

[OldSoldier54]

His website's down. I'm putting the the mouth on him at attorney's sites. Google Jay R. Grodner and follow the links.

[xxxmarinexxxonexxx]

1. Good thing this wasn't 600 years ago, or else he'd be burned at the steak in front of everyone.
2. if it was out of the USA, we'd fry his ass for a barbecue
3. i support Mike totally
4. Jay Grodner's license should be suspended

[dslrogers]

Here is a link to a lawyer directory in the Chicago area where you can leave some feedback on this guy! http://www.localattorneydir.com/local/14018.html

Essayons!

David

[Chuck from Tacoma]

As a civilian, I only now completely understand the term "asshat".
Enough that after reading this sight for a very long time, I decided to long on for the first time and comment.
I, of coarse have emailed the new found asshat and will follow up with a phone call as soon as possible.
Thank all of you for what you do, have done and will continue to do to keep us safe and free.

[mindy1]

gawd, what an ass. have him get off easy, provided he does 2000 hrs of community service at the nearest vets hospital.

[Swede]

First of all, well done to SGT McNulty for doing the right thing and for having the discipline to not pulverize this ass gerbil.

I would recommend dropping this story to a popular law website, such as the Volokh Conspiracy, or to Professor Reynolds over at Instapundit.

Then we'd find out if there's really no such thing as bad publicity.

[Cincinnati_Bob]

My first thought was that by Grodner suggesting he pay 100 and the victim go after his insurance company for the rest, he may have tried to set him up for Insurance Fraud.

This is conspiracy. Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. So, if my thought is correct, this makes two felonies.

Unfortunately, if he's a competent attorney, he can no doubt cost the victim easily more than 2400 pursuing the case.

So, with that, I'll say what goes around, comes around. Getting the guy media attention could conceivably steer potential clients elsewhere based on the knowledge contained here and ultimately cost in a lot more than 2400 in opportunity cost.

[Wendy]

Suggestion: Contact the lawyers who write the blog Powerline for advice. They're in Minnesota.

[Allan]

Insist on trial immediately. If the defendant wants a continuance ask the court to grant a two year continuance. That should take care of the mobilization issue. Or insist the defendant if he will waive the right to cross-examine the main witness.

Make it hard on the judge and the defendant.

[MO]

Here is how to file a complaint against this a$$hat.

http://www.iardc.org/htr_filingarequest.html

More contact info.....

Illinois Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission.

One Prudential Plaza
130 East Randolph Drive
Suite 1500
Chicago, IL 60601-6219
(312) 565-2600 or, within
Illinois, (800) 826-8625
Fax (312) 565-2320

One North Old Capitol Plaza
Suite 333
Springfield, IL 62701-1625
(217) 522-6838 or, within
Illinois, (800) 252-8048
Fax (217) 522-2417

ARDC offices are open Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., with the exception of Commission Holidays.

[Goob]

I can't help with the legal side of things, but could you share his mailing address when he gets to Iraq? For those of us into the anysoldier.com way of supporting our troops, he seems like an exceptional candidate. Good luck busting this guy, Mike.

[Longneck]

Matt:

Check your email...I left you a note that I can help, as I'm in the area.

Snowman

[Goob]

BTW, Mo's suggestion is a good one. I emailed him, but the website doesn't seem to work.

[Goob]

Oddly enough, as of Sunday night, 9:30 PM all of the phone numbers MO supplied "have been disconnected." Is this guy in meltdown mode or something?

[JD]

Grodner: Be a man and pay the Sgt. for the felony damage you were caught committing. You know what a felony is, right? It's one of the things you said you wouldn't do if they gave you a license and allowed you to make lots of money with it. Some people don't like lawyers because they think they're above the law.

As far as suggestions go:

Matt, I suggest you have Michelle advise Bill so the whole friggin' world, via satellite, can know how corrupt the lawyers are in Illinois. I'm sure the voters in the country would like to know what great ethical lawyers/politicians/prosecutors are running that corrupt Daley city. Geez, it smells as much as when his old man dictated over it. I know this schmuck Grodner didn't graduate from Harvard Law like Obama, but they do both have that Chicago lawyer thing going on.

Also, you may want to let the Illinois chapter of The Gathering of Eagles know. They may want to picket this homo sapiens law office.

The Illinois Bar: you guys are real PATRIOTS letting the Sarge get screwed while he deploys. But then again, you'll always cover each others asses, won't ya?

Sgt. McNulty: Sir, I salute you and your efforts to confront our enemies in Iraq rather than allowing them to bring the battle here again. You protect this gash of an attorney as well as all the rest of us. Thank you! Grodner may love Chavez more than the Constitution of our country, but I'm sure he's good at collecting his fee...or something. What I'm trying to say is, the guy...might...have...some...worth. Or something. I mean he's not just on this earth to pollute it with his CO2 emissions. Is he?

Matt: Thanks for letting us know of this injustice against one of our military brethren and allowing us to respond. Can I have you're permission to copy, paste, and e-mail this posting to all my friends stationed around the world?

[Blackfive]

Permission granted.

[OldSoldier54]

JD
I already posted to the Illinois forum at GoE.

[Bruce]

Hey guys - email on the way. I will also post this story on my blog. Please keep us all informed as this proceeds!

[iamgypsy]

Someone from a Military community board found this on this POS.

he already has some issues out there.

http://www.clr.org/Grodner-Jay.html

"In addition to being disciplined for being involved in a scheme to forging documents, it has been reported to CLR that attorney Jay Robert Grodner has since then engaged in a conflict of interest with his clients, has abandoned his clients, has engaged in false billing, has engaged in a fraud upon his clients, provided ineffective assistance of counsel, and has engaged in a "fraud upon the court". "

[JP]

Someone should put this in the ear of Mayor Daley. He has defended the military before:

http://instapundit.com/archives/023757.php

jp

[ChePibe]

*** I am a law student, NOT a lawyer. This is not the legal advice of a qualified professional. ***

With the above firmly in mind, I would recommend the following:

1) First of all, the statute of limitations is not really a concern. 50 App USC § 526 states:

Statute of limitations

(a) Tolling of statutes of limitation during military service

The period of a servicemember's military service may not be included in computing any period limited by law, regulation, or order for the bringing of any action or proceeding in a court, or in any board, bureau, commission, department, or other agency of a State (or political subdivision of a State) or the United States by or against the servicemember or the servicemember's heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns.

So, this should not present him any problem in pursuing his claim. Still, it may be best for him to file now and discuss his service with the court, setting a date far in the future.

2) Forget about pursuing criminal charges. Unless he has some truly amazing pull with the DA, he won't get a felony charge for a $2,400 incident.

3) Take the matter through small claims court, assuming the amount is within the limit. This accomplishes the following:

a) Removes some of the lawyer's advantage of his legal training. In these cases, which are generally open and shut, the judge is the decider of law and fact. The Plaintiff need not make sophisticated arguments - a simple statement of the facts he saw, statement of witnesses, repair bill, and the entry of the police report will suffice.

b) No discovery period - the chief tool used by lawyers to harass each other is discovery. Generally speaking, there is no discovery at all in small claims. This further mitigates the Defendant's advantage of legal training.

c) Quick judgments - Judges like to rule on small claims issues in less than 10-15 minutes. A recent small claims case I recently won as Plaintiff took less than 5. This cuts down on the Defendant's time for elaborate arguments or displays.

d) No need for a lawyer for the Plaintiff - this will save him a great deal of money. Pursuing the case through other means may require a sophisticated process.

e) Collecting his winnings from an attorney won't be hard - the court will have significantly more leverage over a lawyer than most others to make him pay up if the Plaintiff decides to garnish wages.

He runs some risks, though. If he accepts the deductible offer, Plaintiff's insurance rates could go up. On the other hand, if he pays for the $2,400 out of pocket, he may lose in court and never get it back. He may be able to have his insurance pay for the damages and sue for the increased cost of his insurance... he should check on this.

Also, while it would be fun to have a friend who happens to be a Marine drop by in dress uniform for the service, it would probably not be effective. A process server should be someone who is not party to the dispute or closely related to someone who is a party, including friends.

I hope this helps.

*** Once again, I am NOT a lawyer, only a law school student. This post is NOT the advice of a legal professional! ***

[Ken Mitchell]

Since the crime was committed specifically because of the identity of the victim, doesn't that make this a "hate crime"?

[ChePibe]

*** Once again, this isn't legal advice - NONE of my posts are. Do NOT take some anonymous user who uses a random nickname that basically means "some guy" in Argentine Spanish as a purveyor of great legal truths ***

It should be noted that 50 App USC § 526 applies to civil suits, not criminal.

The popular name for the legislation that may be of most use to him on procedural matters arising from his upcoming service is the Servicemember Civil Relief Act, which begins at 50 App USC 501.

Best of luck.

*** Once again, this is not legal advice from a qualified professional ***

[dsinope]

Since Mr. Grodner has taken his website off line, we should really create a wikipedia entry for him, and include this incident - as well as the www.clr.org information.

[Deltabravo]

Funny, Mr. Grodner Esq. is an expert in paternity cases. I guess he never looked up his own paternity? Cuz he's a royal bas****

What comes round goes round. I'm not surprised to see he has many complaints against him already. That kind of lightning seldom only strikes once.

Now that he has every Marine in America and all their friends mad at him, he's in for interesting times.

I'm now sorry I am not an auto restorer who could do this repair for free for him. He deserves it.

[Deltabravo]

Snopes him too.

[iamgypsy]

Someone suggested that perhaps the Sergeant be allowed to testify via webcam or by CCTV....not sure if that's an alternative. Another question came up if JAG is involved on his behalf.

[JD]

ChePibe

Thanks for your help. Don't let the system corrupt your obvious sense of decency.

The man got caught red handed commiting a felony. He should be tried for it. This is why much of the public doesn't have faith in the criminal justice system. Where's the benefit of being honest?

Something also wrong with the system when you have to quadruple disclaim...

[ChePibe]

JD - glad to do what I can.

The disclaimer isn't so much a requirement as a precaution. Putting yourself - or your advice - forward as that of a legal professional when you are, in fact, not, can get a person in a lot of trouble. The your-legal-education-is-now-worthless-because-you-cannot-be-admitted-to-the-bar kind of trouble. Thus the overly-cautious posting.

[GSMcNealTank]

Just blogged this at tank.nationalreview.com to get it some more attention.

Building off Bruce's comment. Why not a Google Bomb to his disciplinary report. This involves as many blog entries and comments as possible with the same syntax:

"Chicago Lawyer Jay Grodner" linked to: http://clr.org/Grodner-Jay.html

and "Chicago Lawyer Jay Grodner" linked to the archive of the disciplinary report: http://web.archive.org/web/20011215211815/http://www.clr.org/Grodner-Jay.html

[liontooth]

Mike's next court date is tomorrow, Monday, December 31st, to pursue misdemeanor charges against Grodner.

Any info on where and what time? Assuming Sgt. Mike doesn't mind some company.

[DANEgerus]

I guess the part that frosts me is this 4-inch dicked thug is counting on the Marine's conduct to avoid his own beating, dismisses him with an offer of $100 for his $2400 in damage and then whines the Marine "called him a Jew".

Since we can't... but if you are a Jew... please let this POS know what you think of him demanding "victim" status in the actual commission of a crime.

All the contact information is at BlackFive... don't contact Mr. Grodner of course... that would be wrong... like keying a car.

[JD]

ChePibe

I fully understand why you felt you needed to do that. My point was merely to point out that your first heading:

*** I am a law student, NOT a lawyer. This is not the legal advice of a qualified professional. ***

should have been sufficient. I fully understand your need to CYA, though. The profession you have chosen to pursue is a technical one, but to my way of thinking, it is moving further and further from common sense with each and every technicality the lawyers and politicians contrive.

[MICHAEL in MI]

My mom is a legal secretary for Jones Day in Chicago. I'll see what I can find out from her tomorrow (well today technically, but you know what I mean).

[MICHAEL in MI]

Also, I second the recommendation of someone above who said to contact the gentlemen (all lawyers) at Power Line. They have been very cordial with me in the past when I have corresponded with them.

[BookerT]

monday @ 1:30 pm Belmont and Western on the north side of Chicago is the court date if you want to support McNulty

[Perry]

Calm down, folks. Even if the jackass 'lawyer'/accused felon does file for a continuance, the Marine is protected by the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act. The trial can't be held, and a verdict can't be reached until the Marine is back home from overseas. Hopefully this Marine's legal counsel is competent enough to do his/her homework on the SCRA. I have confidence that justice will prevail in this case, and the race-card-playing piece of shit that keyed up the young Marine's car will be punished as he rightly deserves.

[JD]

Can a member of Free Republic's forum please get up there also?

[Cincinnati_Bob]

I'd sure ignore the jooo thing. Unless grodner was wearing a button that says "i'm a jooo", the idea that the Marine even brought the subject up is abzurddddd.
And pathetic.

grodner. Be a man for once in you life.
Wish I lived close to you so I could super glue quarters to the pavement all around your neighborhood. If ya know what I mean.

[Perry]

Is this the same dude?

Jay R. Grodner
[Deleted]

I just called and got his machine, but didn't leave a message. Enjoy!

[Hardliner]

just an FYI, this story was submitted to Reddit, and GOPHUB.

I'm nowhere near a Republican and I find this story just appalling.

-Chuck

[Chuck from Tacoma]

Holy crap Batman.
I just googled the asshats name. I think that by morning, this thing is going to go nuclear. If every person who this lawyer freak has pissed off put in a quarter by this time tomorrow, we could get this Marine a new Porche and probably a new Itasca motor home as well.
When are these limp dicked lib slime balls going to learn not to screw with our men and women in uniform. If they have a problem with the war, they have a problem with our politicians (and maybe a little mental health issue as well), not our Marines, Airmen, Soldiers, Guardsmen our Sailors.
Bet mister big sh*t lawyer has a really bad day Monday.

[WildThing]

This is so horrible!!!
I am sending this out to others that might be able to help as well.

[Rich V]

I sent a copy of this article/report to Sen B Obama...probably won't do any good, but WTF! It can't hurt....additionally, I contact the ABC affiliate in the Chicago area as well as the ubiquitous FOXNEWS. Good Luck marine

Rich V. (lcpl USMC 1982-84)

[David]

I want to know the name of the worthless state's attorney so I can part of the destruction of any political career he may want. There is more than one worthless piece of crap lawyer in this story.

I know there are a lot of good lawyers out there, but these two pieces of scum aren't it.

[Michael Z. Williamson]

I wouldn't waste time with small claims court in Shicago. And it's no longer true that small claims means no lawyers or no delays. Attempting to collect on a bad check cost me three trips, several hundred dollars, and a judge telling me the defendant had no obligation to make good.

They will side with the lawyer.

I wouldn't rely on the prosecutor to actually do anything, either. They're too busy seizing guns from old ladies and begging for fed money against "gangs," "Drugs" and "Guns."

It's a shame that the best course of action would have been to beat the crap out of the turd.

I certainly recommend the felony charge, and military duty SHOULD be a legitimate cause for postponement, under law. It could tie the lawyer up for years. The military also might provide representation since military status was involved. Or, they may say he was on leave, so it's strictly private. Worth asking.

I'll chip in $20 toward legal fees. I'm sure we can get enough donations if we can't find a pro bono vet type lawyer.

I've got a friend trying to find...I see we've been beaten to his home address.

Keep it legal, brothers and sisters. One non-threatening call is not harassment.

[MICHAEL in MI]

Ummm, Perry... as much as this guy is a jackass, and as much as you have the good intentions of supporting the Marine, there is no reason to post his personal info on the web for people to harass him. Matt, please take that down.

[Perry]

Military attorneys can't represent him, since this is not a military matter, but I am sure he'll be able to find someone to take this case pro bono, if he hasn't already.

Can't wait to see the fireworks tomorrow. If the jackass was really innocent, and is a victim because he's Jewish, then would he REALLY have shut down his websites, and disconnect all his phones, AND his fax numbers. I don't think so. His career is over. And hopefully his freedom is, as he may be behind bars soon, if we are all lucky.

[Perry]

His info is already out there on the web - all you have to do to find it is do a Google search, but hey, whatever floats your boat - take it down if you feel you need to.

[Speedy Ed]

In my experience, to get things done in a machine-politics locale, you don't talk to the people on the job (in this case the prosecutors), you talk to the politicians. I can't find a way to email Mayor Daley on the Chicago government web site, but here is the Mayor's contact info I found there:

Office of the Mayor
City Hall - 121 N. LaSalle, Room 507
Chicago, IL 60602
Facsimile: 312-744-8045

Perhaps someone can fax the Mayor this post and ask him to help the prosecutors see the wisdom of pursuing the felony case. The Mayor's son is currently serving in the Army overseas (not sure where), so I *think* he might be sympathetic. Also, the Marine's friend, the one he was visiting, should contact his Alderman to see if he can help similarly.

[MICHAEL in MI]

Rich V | December 31, 2007 at 12:50 AM

That's a great idea, Rich. It's too bad that Barack Obama is probably campaigning heavily in Iowa right now. But what better way to use politicians' desire to do the politically expedient thing (even when they could care less otherwise).

Heck, contact him. Maybe he can make some phone calls to his contacts in Chicago. Heck, he's best buds with Oprah now. She's the most powerful woman in Chicago. Get her on the case and this will be taken care of. They won't do it for the Marine, but they will do it to look good politically. Who cares why though, so long as this Marine gets some justice.

[David]

Oh yeah, forgot the obvious, they support the troops.

[MICHAEL in MI]

Perry | December 31, 2007 at 01:00 AM

I understand that Perry. I think calling his office, e-mailing him, FAXing him are all good. But I don't think calling him at home is really warranted. Especially at 1am in the morning. We don't want this guy turning around and getting sympathy, because he complains about getting harrassed with phone calls at home. Even I would side with him over that. No one deserves to get harrassed at their home, no matter how much of a jackass they are.

[slp2502]

Jay M. Grodner was admitted to the bar in Illinois on May 17, 1978.

In 1978, he was an Assistant State's Attorney and, along with four other attorneys, forged names to petition for a state referendum.

In 1979, he was found guilty of election law misdemeanor, place on probation for 6 months and fined $ 1,000.

In 1984, he was censured by the Illinois Supreme Court for that misconduct.

In re Armentrout et al., 99 Ill.2d 242, 457 N.E.2d 1262 (1983)

The case can be found under R&D in his bar records at http://www.iardc.org/ldetail.asp?id=321873784

[JD]

Why do these socialists hate the military so much? Oh yeah, I remember. 'Cause they're fighting the war that Sillary voted to send them to...

[JD]

slp2502

Nice work!

I see the Grodner is well versed in $higago Democrat politics.

[Michael Z. Williamson]

Shouldn't the insurance company also be following up? Mike needs to give all the info to them. They'll either fix his car or sue to get the money, or both.

This does not limit Mike's options, either. Both parties have an interest.

[Michael Z. Williamson]

We have a Jay M and a Jay R. Are we sure they're the same person? Father/son? Master/apprentice? Master/bitch?

[JD]

From Grodner's forgery case that slp2502 found:

"The group discussed the illegality of roundtabling, but XXXXXX repeated the rationale that XXXXXXX had previously offered to denigrate the significance of the forgeries. While eating and drinking beer at the pub, XXXXX, Grodner, XXXXX, and XXXX signed names to a petition that were clearly not those of Illinois voters, such as cartoon character names, in a lighthearted spirit."

I bet this asswipe had the same shiteating grin on his assface committing both crimes.

[Al]

Here is Google's cache of his site (that is now down):

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:xZTVvXUOh74J:www.jaygrodner.com/Jay%2520Grodner.htm+%2Bgrodner+%2Battorney&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=48&gl=us

[Tango6]

Another site we might try posting Mr. Grodner on is It's a place where all sorts of tomfoolery by and about the legal profession gets reported; however, it's too bad this jerk could get lost in the crowd. I'll try, but if I'm unsuccessful...

[Tango6]

Ooops! Somehow the site got deleted - shows my competence - it's "Overlawyered.com."

[GlobalCop]

Funny thing about Chicago and disputes over parked cars: a couple years back Mayor Daley, speaking to a reporter, came right out and said (paraphrasing, I can't find the story at this moment) that anyone who parks in a spot 'reserved' with a lawn chair - after having been cleared of snow - deserved to get what they had coming. In other words, the mayor was advocating street justice in his city.

He later tried to take back those sentiments, but knowing how useless the courts are for such small matters (as the former States Attorney), I guess he knew what he was talking about.

BTW, I wonder what the fine members of the Chicago Police, many of whom served or are serving in Iraq, think about this guy? I hope he stops properly at all the stop signs in the near future.

[GlobalCop]

BTW, here is the website the alderman for that ward, if the home address posted earlier was correct.

http://www.ward49.com/

[M. Simon]

I put this up at Classical Values and Power and Control thanks to the Instapundit link.

The guy is toast.

[M. Simon]

BTW I'm a Jew and the man is despicable. He dishonors the faith/race.

[M. Simon]

Oh, yeah. I'm Navy too ('63 - '67).

Semper Fi

[LifeTrek]

This guy is a jerk!

- I think the procedure in IL to file a complaint against a lawyer is processed through the State Supreme Court.

- Also this guy should definitely file an insurance claim with his auto insurance company. Inform the company of the steps taken so far and inform them of the attorney's offer to pay the guy's deductible if he just settles.

Insurance companies have legal departments that get paid to collect form asshats like this guy. Then this marine won't have to worry and it should get taken care of, but he won't know for sure. If he pleads to even a misdemeanor they will get him to pay the full cost including the deductible.

Just a thought.
DKK

[Tammi]

I was going to say the same thing as LifeTrek. Mike should have a heart to heart with his insurance company. That's why they have Subrogation departments. Explain what happened and they'll take care of the damages and then go after their money. And they can get it easier than Mike can. They can take the guy's drivers liscense, put liens on property. They're ALL about getting their money back.

[Goob]

I've been trying to call the man to get his side of the story, but all of his phone numbers are disconnected! I haven't tried this one yet:

[deleted]

since it's his home number, and it's painfully early right now. Has anyone had any luck reaching this man, before I wake him up?

[Goob]

Shoot, I didn't mean to paste his address. Could some nice blackfive agent delete that for me?

[dellbabe68]

As someone noted earlier in comments, the numbers are disconnected. So I used the email posted. Told him to be a man, apologize, and get on with his life, and to pay full restitution.

[dellbabe68]

It may be necessary for all of us to contribute some money for the Sgt.'s legal bills. Think it over; let's be prepared. This dumb attorney thought he was dealing with one guy who can't do much against the high and mighty.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Any guy that would key a car is a f***ing COWARD! Sgt McNulty showed great restraint by not collapsing his larynx.

[Bert]

I have a slightly different take on a response. Here is the email I just sent Mr. Grodner:

"
New Year is a good time for reassessment of personal values and goals.

I don't wish to offend you or judge you for your actions with regard to Sgt Mike McNulty, but I do hope you use this New Year to reassess the kind of human being you want to be.

Sincerely,

Bert
"

Oh yes, I was PHIBPAC, '50-'53,
http://www.kmike.com/b606.h6m

[cvproj]

Posted to Power Line Forum under General Discussion

[Scott]

Here is the site with info about requesting the investigation of an Illinois Lawyer.

In Illinois, any felony can get you disbarred.

http://www.iardc.org/htr_filingarequest.html

[Scott]

And for the record, I'm very impressed (but not surprised) at the restraint shown by this Marine.

I would have beaten the guy to within an inch of his life.

Like the guy once said, "That's the Chicago way"...

[jackie.smith]

This Anti Military (LAWYER if u can call him that) was lucky it wasºt in my dads car ohh u dont want to know what would happen...

WHAT A FAG!!!!!

Poor SGT Mike, today is new years eve and this jackass gives him this gift. Hope Mike wins, HAPPY NEW YEAR MIKE!!!!!

[jackie.smith]

Someone needs to give this asshole a freaking good lesson. i hope someone goes to this ANTI MILITARY GUYS HOUSE and beats him...

[Michael Z. Williamson]

According to this local blog:

http://morsehellhole.blogspot.com/2007/12/rogers-park-lawyer-goes-up-against.html
Blognotes: Anti-war Alderman's constituent damages a military man's vehicle. This should really be interesting. Jay Grodner, living in a ward under the control of Joe Moore, a known anti-military politician, defaces a military mans vehicle. Is this what all military personal can expect when venturing into Joe Moore country? Has Joe Moore created a hate in Rogers Park towards military personal?

The local alderman will be a worthless POS.

[Sue]

Couldn't he file on his insurance and let the insurance company go after the lawyer?

[Sue]

Seems someone has already thought of my solution.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Sue, yes he could but it would show up in the industry data base as a claim and he could get screwed (higher rate) for the claim if he would ever seek another insurance company.

[comsmith]

What I have to say to this low life individual is nothing short of rude crude and completely obscene and I would not say it because, IF he is, a Yankee Jew Lawyer Mother Fighting, Rooster Vacuum, Sunny Beach, he would probably use it against me in a court of law… to advance his own ill-gotten gains and profits...
As for the young troop I would find a Junkyard Mean, Hungry Fence jumping dirty Underhanded Ambulance Chasing Slime ball and Make a deal with the Devil him self and have the Guy go for the throat and tell the Guy every thing ya get over "X" amount is yours and then watch the 2 dogs fight it out amongst them selves… that or have the IRS climb up the barraters’ butt with a Microscope … and a few friends in “Da Hood” would not hurt either… I would not involve the Military unless I had to and the S7S relief act would be the extent… Till I got Home then show him what I learned In Iraq… but that’s Me and I am not overly Stable… Just make Sure "O'Riely, & Sean Hannity and Michell"... all are aware and then the WGN folks might like it as a Human interest Story...

[Potosi Joel]

Well, I am not a lawyer, but if the pos lawyer identified himself as a lawyer- an officer of the court- and told the Sgt that he wouldn't be able to prevail against him in court because of that, might not the Sgt have standing to go to Federal court with a civil rights case under the "Denial of Due Process under false color of authority" laws?

[JD]

Bottom line is it appears this guy can get away with multiple felonies and still make a living in Illinois in law because these lawyers cover up for each other.

What other profession can get away with that besides politicians and terrorists?

[BookerT]

Has anybody examined the relationship between Jay Grodner and the States Attorneys? According to his bio, Grodner was an Assistant States Attorney. Are they scratching each others backs?

[Willie_Cobbins]

Jay Grodner is as ugly as his actions make him out to be. I found one of his many dating site profiles by googling "jayrg8". The bare chested pic almost made me barf.

I took the liberty of uploading everything to imageshack so you don't have to sign up to the dating site.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3020/jaygrodnernudepicjk1.gif
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5850/jaygrodnerpichz0.gif
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8053/jaygrodneradev6.jpg

[Deltabravo]

He can't be too smart. He picked a holiday weekend to do this? He shoulda known you guys would have nothing to do but spread this all over the Internet on a quiet holiday weekend. hahaha...
This is getting more hits than the Flag topic!

I LOVE the idea about putting another mean lawyer on his tail and telling him he gets to keep anything he wins over a certain amount. That is a guarantee of a long mean fight! hahaha.

I'm just angry that the last few days before deployment for the Sgt. are taken up with this bull####

[tankerbrosbrat]

Posted on Tanker Bros and linked to here.;)

[Devil Dog Dad]

Willie, that first picture is just nasty. Thanks for cropping the nude pic.

[Swede]

Willie,

Eeeewwwwwww.

The goggles, they do nothing!

[FbL]

From the update: "And, BTW, a sincere thanks to all the Chicago Police Officers for their adivce and offers."

Bwaahahahahha! I'm sure the police will behave professionally, but does anyone think Grodner's going to get away with even a rolling stop or 5 mph over the speed limit in the Chicago in the next six months?

Legal restitution may not happen, but karma's gonna get him. *GRIN*

[BookerT]

willie great pics he was wearing the same suit in/ tie in court last Friday. I bet he wears it again today @ belmont/western 1:30 for his court date. Jay Grodner is a clown.

[JD]

Guaranfuckinteed this schmuck is defended by the Huff children and his media friends. It's now known as the Clinton Technique. DENY, DENY, DENY. "I did not get any blowjob in the oval office by any intern". "Right wing conspiracy."

You know the drill.

[arclightzero]

This is an absolute atrocity and this guy should be happy that he isn't drug out back and beaten senseless... But the US Military is above that. He's lucky.

As a Marine, he should have free access to the Navy JAG's office, and I don't know if all JAGs are created equal, but the JAGs we had on base while I was active duty in the Navy frothed at the mouth to go after punks like this. There was really no greater legal offense then anti-military civilians harming military personnel in any way. I saw them go after civilians and absolutely destroy them.

But that's just my two cents on the issue.

[theendisnear]

My recommendations, for what they're worth (attorney in Tennessee): I don't have anybody I could recommend directly in the Chicago area, but having read the article and the posts, I can certainly agree on two things:

1. The lawyer is an a$$hole;

2. And he needs to be reported to the Illinois Bar Association, and sued in civil court for the entire cost of all repairs to the Marine's car, plus Court costs and anything else his own counsel can think of, up there in IL.

At least in Tennessee, the Board of Professional Responsibility takes things like this VERY SERIOUSLY indeed! Minimum, were this here in TN, would be private censure, or possibly public, or a license suspension for one or more years, and maximum could well be disbarment.

Unfortunately, as one of the posters has noted, it's really up to the local A-G on whether to prosecute criminally or not. I've run across this many times, where folks do want (and do deserve!) to have the perpetrator prosecuted in criminal court, but the A-G won't go forward (whether for lack of staff, reluctance to go after a fellow attorney, genuine belief that the case is not strong enough to proceed, etc. -- there are a million reasons not to go forward, I'm afraid, and not much the Marine can do about it).

Still, by reporting this incident (send along a copy of the police report, and any other documents) to the IL Board of Professional Responsibility (or whatever it is they call it up in those parts), that WILL get action -- the lawyer will have to respond (love to read that response!), or lose his license to practice; the Marine will then have a chance to reply to that response, and the Board will then take some sort of action, as described above. Even if there's no criminal case/conviction, I have no doubt the Board will take the Marine's complaint very, very seriously, and may ultimately suspend or disbar this prick from the practice of law for his idiotic actions.

Also, of course, sue the guy civilly. That may take a while, anyway, but the Marine can always execute a Full and Durable Power-of-Attorney, naming his father, or his brother (or another close relative) his Attorney-in-Fact; that person CAN stand in for him while he's overseas, in a civil lawsuit, and of course his own counsel will represent him in court, so the matter can proceed even if he's not present. If there's time, possibly his lawyer could take his sworn statement before he leaves the country; at least get the Marine's side of what happened on the record.

Although it would be greatly pleasurable to return the favor ("key" the moron's car), I highly recommend that no one take that step (at least until everything has settled out on the Bar Assn. complaint, and the civil suit). What happens to the scumbag's car a couple of years from now -- well, c'est la vie.

Or, c'est la guerre! If you will . . .

[M. Simon]

You might want to Google just Jay Grodner.

His sites come up at the top of that one (Black Five comes at the top of Jay R. Grodner).

In any case neither link works any more.

I wonder if lawyers have going out of business sales. Har.

[M. Simon]

BTW my guess is that he will be moving soon and not just his law offices.

I'm betting his SO (if he has one) is not a happy camper.

In fact given his beliefs about Rightwing/Military Madmen he is no doubt in fear for his life. I wonder who cleans the skid marks off his underwear.

[JD]

Among other things, here are two things I'd like to see in 2008:

1) Sgt. McNulty gets all the money he is owed by the lawyer.

2) The State Attorney have to make a public statement as to why this lawyer should not have his mug shot on Drudge.

Keep up the heat folks. Get the word out.

Illinois lawyers & politicians can be beat...

[Miss Ladybug]

Michelle Malkin has linked to think, just about an hour ago...

[Miss Ladybug]

oops..

think = this

[GlobalCop]

Here is the alderman of that ward, at the gates of the White House. You might also remember when Chicago banned Foie gras, that was Alderman Moore's doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfOZO0y9JgI&eurl=http://morsehellhole.blogspot.com/search?q=joe+moore+washington

[MrJimm]

I just happen to live in Deerfield, not too far from this scumbag's "principal office". The address looked a little funny to me, so I walked past it this morning.

No wonder that address sounded a little strange. It's.............. a residential apartment building! (With indoor parking, of course. Wouldn't want to have to park his car outside where random scumbags key the cars of people they don't like, and then offer to pay the $100 deductible in lieu of appropriate punishment.)

[JD]

Last March 17th I went to D.C. and stood with my brothers and sisters at GOE 1 and faced down the hordes at Arlington Circle. The reason we were there was because there was damage done to monuments and the Capitol.

This is what these children do.

MrJimm

Does it look like this fool is breaking zoning laws over there? This guy does political work (not so well, apparently), so possibly the zoning board is taken care of along with the States Attorney...

[TBinSTL]

A FReeper was in the courtroom today and posted his report:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1946463/posts

Sorry you'll have to cut-n-paste because my html is as weak as my kung-fu.

[Arch]

Wonder what he drives.

[Arch]

What has black and brown fur and looks good on a lawyer?

A doberman.

[Cabbitboy]

Sgt. McNulty has WAY more self control than I as I'd have activated this asshat's major medical.
I've sent an email with a link to this site and story to my brother in law who owns an auto body shop out in Spring Grove to see if he can't make contact with Sgt McNulty or his family to see if he might be able to at least make things right carwise and let the courts handle this putz lawyer.

[dennisw]

I'm a Jew and wish my people could disown this Grodner skunk. A major embarrassment to my people.

Stay safe Sgt. McNulty and best of luck with this Grodner

[LifeTrek]

Devil and Sue,
I think the CLUE (comprehensive loss underwriter evaluation) report will NOT hurt this Sargent if he files a claim. It will be attributed to the asshat since he was discovered and the cost should be recovered from him. Typically in cases like this where the deductible is refunded to the insured after the company collects from the vandal the company loss is zero so it may appear but will show a zero loss and won't be counted. That is how it ran here in Illinois back a few years ago anyway.
DKK

[Last Person]

Is this what passes for justice in America now? Forget the courts and actual presentation of evidence and stories to a judge...

What's that? A Marine is accusing someone of keying his car??? Well that should make your blood boil alright./sarcasm

Oh and let's be perfectly clear - I'm not suggesting anyone harass this lawyer or try to ruin his life in any way(wink wink nudge nudge) but here is all of his contact info and feel free to post other ways people can file bogus claims against him and otherwise try to trash his reputation.

And all because you yahoos are buying the story of the Marine hook line and sinker and couldn't care less if there are any extenuating circumstances or not.

Don't get me wrong. Destroying someones property is not justifiable and the lawyer should pay, but if it were done in the heat of an argument then it would shed a different light on things. But don't let any of those silly little things slow all of you down in your rush to destroy the big bad ass attorney who had the audacity to have a dispute with a poor little defenseless Marine.

I hope Sgt. McNulty doesn't think he's going off and defending the American way because it looks like that is gone and mob rule is back in charge around here. OOH-RAH!

[Blackfive]

Wow, it took only 118 comments before the first actual troll showed up.

Don't get me wrong.

Don't worry. We don't get you wrong.

Update 12-31-07 2030 CST: From a reader who wanted this posted in response to Last Person (above):

Last Person: Any individual who places his or her life on the line in defense of American principles of justice has, per force, pledged the ultimate bond of respect for our way of life. To suggest that a Marine is either ignorant or disrespectful of the ideals of justice is an insult to each person who has ever put on the uniform of the United States. It is clear that you have a legal agenda of your own. It is, however, unfortunate that you have not apprised yourself of the facts of the situation. Your arrogant pronouncements discredit you. No one is attempting to discredit another person in this matter. Everyone is seeking that justice be done. The facts are simple and they are stark: a Marine's car was vandalized by a person who did so in reaction to the fact of his military liscense plates. Were this racially or religiously charged (and had nothing to do with military service) it would be a much more serious criminal charge and would be a much more sympathetic case.

[jmon]

Last person - Did you even read the original post up top?
Mob rule is when haters think they can damage others property and get away with it because they are politically pure in their thoughts.
Mob rule is a judicial/political system maintained by party loyalists who will cover the transgressions of their own at the expense of those who protect their very being.
Do you believe it's ok to damage someones personal property because you don't agree with their political thought or their choice of employment? Please feel free to expound on this, I'm sure everyone is just dying to hear it, Comrade shitweasel.

[dsinope]

A few weeks ago my car was parked in front of my house. At 7 am a woman made a U turn, missed, and dented the bumper.

A couple of nice neighbors got her license plate, knocked on my door and told me what had happened.

I made a police report, told them I wanted to press charges, called the insurance company (Auto Club) and filed the claim. They said since I had the license plate and was pursuing it with the police, the deductible was waived.

That's just my insurance company. Personally, I think this asshat should be disbarred. If the Sgt. can't get justice from the system, I'll personally pay his deductible, just to thank him for his service. dsinope at gmail dot com.

[planck's constant]

Typepad won't take my trackbacks, I linked to your story from Jay R Grodner is an Idiot where I have a photo of Jay - what he really looks like.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Hey Jay, -- I mean Last Person, save it for the judge.

Last Trek, thanks for the correction on CLUE.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Oops, my apologies Live Trek I mean.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Sureee I'll have another oneeee....LifeTrek. It pays to drink the best.

[OldSoldier54]

Happy New Years, folks! Stay outta trouble!! :)

[Blackfive]

New update posted about the hearing today...

[Cincinnati_Bob]

Are they scratching each others backs?

I think you have the wrong part of the anatomy.

PS - I would think it is safe to assume this adolescent has done the same thing to other cars similarly marked/decaled. He just happened to get caught this time.

It's been educational reading through the comments. It sure seems the Sargent's insurance company might be able to turn up the heat. And I still think by grodner suggesting the Sargent file a claim pretending to not know the events of the damage (would have to be that way no?) that this is a conspiracy to commit fraud. Another felony.

Well, good luck, and I hope we see a successful conclusion story at some point in the future.

[Cincinnati_Bob]

Regards Update - OUTSTANDING! This appears to be on track now.

What goes around.... Helped very much by B5 in my estimation.

B5- How many little ones do you have? In any case, I think you need another. It would certainly help 'balance' the planet eh?

[JD]

Hey, this is a great way to end a tough year. I'm very happy that it appears things look good for Sgt. McNulty's case. We cannot take our eye off the ball though. He deserves full restitution plus his lawyers fees paid for.

Grodner, suggest you move to San Francisco. They'll love ya there.

Let's hope 2008 is a better year all around. Matt, nice job! You are the man. Thanks for all you do for the troops. You're a great Patriot and a great human being.

HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYONE!

[kathianne]

Happy New Year, Matt, Mrs.B5, and all the B5 readers and writers.

I was so heartened to read the update this morning regarding the Sgt. Somehow I don't think Grodner is going to have such a great start on this new year. Couldn't happen to a more deserving *****

[Last Person]

To jmon - "Comrade shitweasel" LOL, good one man!/sarcasm

Yes I read the original post up top. And what I see at this point is nothing but a he said/she said case. Has the lawyer actually said to anyone conducting the investigation that he keyed the Sgt.'s car simply because it had military plates and he hates the military? If he has and any of you care to share the proof then I'll applaud your efforts and I hope you trash the guys life but good.

I'll bet all of the posters here were crying up a storm when John Murtha acted like an ass and used the words he did in public that he did about the Haditha incident before there had been a complete investigation and trial. Yet here they are condeming this on what???

While I agree that it looks like the lawyer did key the car and think he should pay and get hit with the full extent of the law for that. I can't get behind this mob rule mentality going on here with the 100 ways we can completely ruin the guys life before there was even a hearing. It's wrong, plain and simple.

So if you have any actual proof that this lawyer did this simply because he hates the military and there was no other motivation for his actions, please share it.

Thanks.

To Blackfive - Is someone having a different point of view really trolling in your world? I could have refrained from the use of the word "yahoos" and been a little gentler but c'mon, we're grownups and I thought you and the posters could handle it.