Losing the War on Drugs again in Afghanistan

Posted By Uncle Jimbo

I am a veteran of a war that we still fight although we lost it as soon as we began. It has been a fools errand that has cost us trillions of dollars and put us on the wrong side of a simple equation, supply v. demand. Junkies demand drugs and we decided that rather than deal with that fact, we would destroy all the drugs on the planet. There is some solid thinking for you. Well just like Paraquat spraying wiped out weed in the 70s and 80s, and the devils brew of chemicals we have sprayed all over a number of Andean nations wiped out cocaine, now the same collection of strategerists are  going to pacify Afghanistan by, you guessed it aerial spraying the poppies.

KABUL, Afghanistan, Oct. 7 — After the biggest opium harvest in Afghanistan’s history, American officials have renewed efforts to persuade the government here to begin spraying herbicide on opium poppies, and they have found some supporters within President Hamid Karzai’s administration, officials of both countries said.

Just for the record, we lost the War on Drugs and now in an eerily similar naming problem we fight a War on Terror. In the first case the drugs aren't the problem it's the damn junkies, they really, really want the drugs. My best friend died after a long love/hate relationship with pain pills and I saw just how far humans will go to feed an addiction. But instead of facing the difficult reality that our friends and family are the real problem we declare war on the substances themselves. as if somehow we could rid the planet of any substances people would choose to abuse. We can't, and our efforts have done huge and lasting damage to our relations with far too many countries and the millions of poor people who always catch the brunt. We would buy the cooperation of the local government with satchels full of drug war money and then we could salve our consciences by spraying and burning the nasty stuff that was corrupting our kids. My saddest realization was that if we had simply taken the billions we have wasted with our global interdiction efforts, we could have bought each junkie 24/7 bodyguard coverage. Whenever they would reach for the pipe, or the needle they would catch a crack to the skull. Simple  yet brilliant.

This same logic leads us to hold a war on terror rather than the radical Islamists themselves. But now these two semantically-challenged endeavors collide as we take failed tactics from a war we lost badly and use them to try and lose the current one. The reasons to stop this insane policy are many, but can't we just start out with the fact that it doesn't even work for the bad idea it is supposed to enact. We never stop the growing of drug crops, we simply make large numbers of poor farmers poorer and the bad guys richer.  The reason given to justify this is that some of the proceeds from the drug trade support the Taliban. No kidding. Are we incapable of sublimating our Puritanical revulsion to drugs long enough to maybe buy the crop and make as much medicine as we need? We can burn the rest if that makes it any better, but the second we spray their lifeblood, they will donate their actual blood to the Taliban and AQ.

We have plenty enough challenges in Afghanistan without turning a large chunk of the populace against us. Our long and storied record of failing to make wise choices about drug policy cannot be allowed to wreck our efforts in the actual fight of our times. Maybe there is a perverse logic in this and when we lose and the Caliphate is restored, the Islamists will certainly stop opium production and we will have won, right? Let's not rest our hopes on that and we should start by not alienating potential allies in the forlorn quest to rid the planet of drugs.

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Comments

[Mr.Sparkle]

I can't believe they are even thinking of this, what is more important you douchebags - winning the war in Afghanistan or the endless drugs war?

There is a phrase that I cannot remember but it describes the policial phenomenon of institutional patterns of behaviour, obviously someone hasn't updated their playbook, bureaucracy at work.

[OldSoldier54]

Concur 100%, UJ.
This appears to be SOP for our society ... deal with the symptom and not the disease. The disease is us, in the form of corrupted value systems of the soul.

This is insane, to do ANYTHING that might stop us from winning the GWOT.

[Arch]

UJ,

Agree. The Brits have figured this out and provide addicts with drugs. It's much cheaper for the addict and the public, cinsidering how much of our law enforcement and penal system is tied up in illicit drug crime.

The junkies are going to get drugs somewhere. The government could provide safe, clean alternatives to street drugs. The money saved on AIDS alone could fund the whole thing.

Arch

[jordan]

Well, there has to be something there to take the place of those crops BEFORE they are eradicated, no? They can't just kill all the crops and leave it at that. Why not have programs in place to wean farmers off to other crops, little by little. As they gain confidence that these can be depended on, they can more and more be seduced out of the opium business.

No question, a one-pronged attack on poppy fields would be destablizing. Karzai has to get some semblance of an economy and a market going so that they can make a living in other ways. Seems that should be where State Dept. efforts should be focused. You've got to give them other means before you take their livelihood away.

There could even be legal routes for the opium, i.e. let them continue to profit, but via a legal, monitored system that feeds legitimate pharmaceutical manufacturers world wide. Going around spraying and killing their crops seems ham-handed.

[Old Tanker]

Kinda like the War on Poverty, except we've been fighting that one longer........

Arch,

while I may agree that the war on drugs is a waste of money I hardly agree the Brits "have it figured out" by giving addicts drugs. Sounds like saying we could take care of manic depression by giving away guns....

[bthun]

UJ, you are, IMO, correct.

The war on drugs along with the attendant powers given to law enforcement to seize property on nothing more than suspicion is another problem with the WOD.

IMO if we follow our free market philosophy with some common sense ideas, Jordan brings up a couple... we can deal more effectively with the drug problem.

- Legalize any and all drug use for any weak soul of legal age who wishes to ruin their life with the use of drugs. Releasing those who are incarcerated for drug use and nothing more might free up enough prison space to actually keep the violent or otherwise real bad people behind bars for extended periods of time so that when they are released, they are too old and feeble to bully anyone.
- Apply all other laws vigorously such as DUI, property crimes, robbery, assault/battery, and of course the most serious of crimes, rape, manslaughter and homicide.
- Competition and regulation/taxation (no free ride on taxes for the drug pimps) should drive down the high cost (and profits) of the illicit drug trade
- Domestic illegal drug pimps (to be clear, not necessarily the Pharmaceutical Ad folks on Madison Ave.) are treated with the same vigor by BATF as illegal liquor distillers, aka moon shiners, but maybe with stiffer penalties (if incarceration, a condition of stiff penalties, persists beyond 4 years, see your lawyer immediately)
- Drug pimp importers receive much more harsh penalties for the illegal importation of drugs
- As mentioned, work more on the demand end than the supply end, educational tours for young impressionable children showing them the broken people leading broken lives who are wasting away from drug use. Our children are, in many ways, consequence free and it just might not be such a bad thing to again teach our children that certain decision can lead to some awful results. For the Children. ™
- Do away with intrusion into persons homes and lives on the suspicion that they might be getting high (see second item above) along with seizure laws and their abuse. Anyone care to go into SWAT raids gone bad which were based on specious information provided by criminal informants?
- redirect the tax money now spent bribing drug producing countries on treatment.

All in all it could be cheaper, more effective, and more beneficial for society on the whole. My opinion, nothing more. If you think otherwise, convince me.

WRT the WoT, most here could probably teach me a lot so I’ll defer to the more studied. But fer chissakes, stop doing searches on cripple blue-hairs while being afraid to profile those actually most likely to be terrorists.

Sheesh… When did common sense become such an uncommon commodity?

[Mr.Sparkle]

Bthun sound like Ron Paul! Shocking!

You make absolute sense though...

[Solo]

Turkey had this problem many years ago. Now farmers can be licensed to grow poppies which are sold to pharmaceutical companies. The farmer will lose everything, plus face prison if he participates in illegal drug trade. Afghanistan has tried to get farmers to convert to other crops but many keep their poppy crops also, because of the ready profits. The fear has been that if the poppy crops are destroyed outright, many of the farmers and villages will join with the Taliban. A lot of money will have to be poured into subsidies to Afghan farmers to either not grow the poppies, or to buy the crops at a higer price than the Taliban/AQ pays. Will it stop the drug trade? Doubtful, but it might help kick the hell out of it. AQ and the Taliban have their fingers in many other illegal businesses also. Ever buy a knockoff because you got a good deal? That profit may be helping finance our enimies.

[bthun]

Ron Paul! That stings. I 'll admit to a vein of libertarianism but Ron Paul? I think not!

The issue is that a person doing a drug outside of a case of medical supervision, is harming no one other than their own stupid arse. An exception might be a family member/loved one who depends upon that person.

When a person breaks a law infringing upon the property, the life, the liberty or the pursuit of happiness of another, then the person should face criminal persecution for a crime against the public/society.

Now if someone wants to commit suicide with a drug, a knife, a gun or by jumping off their roof into their pool with 300 lbs of weight tied around their ankles, Geronimo baby.

[douglas]

Well, there has to be something there to take the place of those crops BEFORE they are eradicated, no? They can't just kill all the crops and leave it at that. Why not have programs in place to wean farmers off to other crops, little by little."

Apparently, we learn from our mistakes. This time they are helping farmers grow saffron as an alternative that provides near the return of Opium poppy. It's a step in the right direction.

I also think you have to realize that this is an operation in the GWOT. The buyers of the farmers poppy crop are affiliated with if not the actual bad guys, and we need to cut off their funds. I'm not saying this will shut down heroin supplies and save junkies aruond the world. I'm sure it won't. But it will impact a local and critical issue in Afghanistan.

Let's not conflate the 'war on drugs' and this operation.

[douglas]

CLOSE LINK,
Sorry.

[Ymarsakar]

Whenever they would reach for the pipe, or the needle they would catch a crack to the skull. Simple yet brilliant.

You got to tell me someday which pacifism school you went do. It would be an interesting story all in all.

[douglas]

Here is the data about the cultivation of poppy and it's relationship to AQ propaganda output. It's about GWOT not the 'War on Drugs'.

[Dbltap]

douglas

The GWOT can't be won if we turn the population of Afghanistan against us; COIN 101.

Saffron? OMG that could only come from DC. "Near the return" is less than. Taking money from farmers=pissed off farmers=people that like to shoot at foreign troops.

Buy and Burn. Let them grow the crop they want to, pay them for it, and then burn it, or sell it to Big Pharma I really don't care. I only care about the troops that are going to get killed and maimed if this stupid idea goes forward.

[douglas]

Grow poppy to sell to legit pharm buyers, fine, but it isn't a silver bullet either.

As for the price of Saffron-
"...farmer typically gets just a few hundred dollars for each kilogram of high-quality unpackaged saffron, the same Iranian-grown saffron -- repackaged in Spain or Italy -- can sell for more than $2,000 per kilogram in the West."

We need to help them establish an industry and they'll have something to protect and that will help them prosper. I think most Farmers there would rather have a legit crop that isn't threatened to become nothing if it gets sprayed, as opium is, even if it pays slightly less per kilo. It's not as simple as we're taking money from they're pockets.

We should pursue all reasonable solutions that benefit us.

[bthun]

"Here is the data about the cultivation of poppy and it's relationship to AQ propaganda output. It's about GWOT not the 'War on Drugs'.

But in this case, there is common ground which draws both GWoT and WoD attendees. Each with their own agenda. There can be no argument that the farmer wants to grow the poppy to maximize profit. Nor that AQ has educated cult members savvy enough to horn into the profit stream.

And as doubletap points out, forcing the farmers to substitute a less profitable crop will not IMO, in the short or long term, help the GWoT effort. Again, my unqualified and admittedly WAG of an opinion is that it will, without doubt, further anger and alienate whole segments of the population in which our warriors must operate. And then there is the ripple effect on the population.

I still contend that our government and other governments can attack the demand in ways I mentioned earlier. There is no quick fix. But in addition to working the demand end of the problem, we could by putting a substantial global law enforcement effort into tracking the money from the poppy sap harvest through the heroine production stream (yeah I watched Miami Vice years ago), capture (and/)or kill those transporting the product and depose of the product well down stream from the farmers. This seems to me as if it would, after a while, make the profit incentive diminish. Especially if through the coordinated global LEO efforts, the cash could be interdicted along with any surplus cash/bank-accounts/properties (did I happen to mention seizure laws?) of those involved.

Seems to me as if there ought to be a large opportunity to take a fresh tack in there somewhere. All of this assumes that the NYT or the LAT does not tip everyone off in mid-operation.

[Cincinnati_Bob]

Arch, Bthun and any others I may have missed.

Echo.

The only way to put someone out of business is to undercut their prices. The gov could give the stuff away, or take the UJ approach and provide babysitters, though that approach requires identifying the users. Giving the stuff away eliminates that headache.

The Afghans could grow corn for Ethanol, though that little idea seems to be fading rather quickly. But corn will grow anywhere. If the American Indian can grow it in Arizona, the Afghans will have no trouble. Add other cash crops and get some food closer to the people who are actually looking for the stuff. Wheat, etc. Lots of things to do to keep the Afghans in money for the staples of life. Put up some movie studios there, make some movies(kidding..maybe)

But here is another example of how incompetent government is and people want them running the health care system????

[Dbltap]

"It's not as simple as we're taking money from they're pockets"

Oh but it is.

You are saying they should learn how to grow saffron (!?) in the apparent assumption that, being the ignorant Afghan peasants that they are, they could not have figured out all by their lonesome that they could make more money growing saffron, or corn or any other crop. You seem think they woke up one morning and said "Damn we could make a ton of money growing saffron but we prefer to lose money on a crop that we know will piss off the US." No, they are filling a need that American and European junkies have created and poppies are the most profitable thing you can grow in Afghanistan right now. If it was saffron they would grow it with no help from us.

What a spray program in Afghanistan will say is that the lives of American and European junkies are more important than the lives of Allied troops and Afghan farmers. It IS that simple.

[douglas]

"...in the apparent assumption that, being the ignorant Afghan peasants that they are, they could not have figured out all by their lonesome that they could make more money growing saffron, or corn or any other crop."
Actually, yes. I think, like most people, they keep on doing what they're doing, as they've done it for a very long time- unless they're introduced to an alternative. Also, we're not forcing anyone to plant saffron, the Afghan government is just helping provide starter stock, and assistance in developing the industry- forming co-ops and marketing structures. I just don't see why it's a bad idea. True, opium poppy is the most profitable crop, but it has risks that saffron, also profitable, does not. Risk matters to Farmers, it's not as simple as just price/kilo. It's also not about the lives of jumkies, it's about who the money assists- AQ.