Islamo-Fascism lameness- Horowitz sucked Hoover

Posted By Uncle Jimbo

Lovely link from Andrew Sullivan, but I think my Wayne's World "sucked Hoover" ref slipped under his high brow radar. Too little SNL during his formative years.

What a let down. My buddy Ebo and I attended Horowitz' opening night of Islamo-Fascism Awareness week and if this is our answer to sharia, then I guess Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad it will be.

Both of us were predisposed to agree wth most of what Horowitz was saying, but as is my complaint fairly often, his tone and delivery ruined his chances of doing his cause much good. He spoke in front of what was potentially a very hostile crowd 3/4 or so antagonistic to his viewpoint. He was so uninspiring a speaker they  didn't even really heckle him. I will give credit to the Muslim Student Association  and the other groups who were there in opposition, they maintained more decorum than Mr. Horowitz. By the end he was saying "Well I guess you just aren't able to read" and "I don't know what to do if you can't add two and two and get four"

The highlight of the event, but not the night, was when deranged 9/11 Truther and UW lecturer Kevin "I take moonbat as a compliment" Barrett jumped up early and tried to ask Horowitz to investigate 9/11. Much of the crowd knew who he was and they still began yelling for him to sit down and shut up. There was a Q&A scheduled for after but you know Truthers. He had to have his moment. Well he got it. The crowd both right, left, Muslims, Jews, Christians all decent people began the perfect chant. A**hole, A**hole, A**hole. He was browbeaten from the theater, deemed beneath the dignity of the proceedings.

Sweet.

We held out 'til the end and the Q&A had Horowitz launching the testy ad hominems I noted and complaining that the questions were too long in comparison to his epic length musings on how dumb his audience was. I heard the College Republicans, who sponsored him, were wicked pissed.

It would have been a total bomb, but Ebo decided we needed a pitcher of Optimator in the Rathskeller and we spent about an hour talking with a couple of groups of folks who came in opposition to Horowitz. It was enagaging, entertaining and so completely superior to the waste of time that was the theater in the theater, that we resolved to attend the Muslim dialogue tomorrow night. I truly enjoyed the discussion with some folks who, although we disagreed on much, came with much more open minds and helpful attitudes than the headliner.

I have a bunch more video, although editing will leave little. I will be sitting down and talking with these same folks and more tomorrow and will film that. I actually had more common ground with the Muslim Student Association tonight than with my zionist neocon overlord. Hmmmmph? Here is the Truther idiot ejected by the crowd, reminds me of the end of Dangerous Liaisons, when Glenn Close slinks out of the opera. Nah more like when a drunken fool is ejected from a tavern.

Here is an interview I did a while back with the organizer of the International Conference on Islam also here at the UW.

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Comments

[joeknyc]

I was there and totally agree. Horowitz has been much better. As soon as I saw the fat ass stand up I started yelling sit down and take your meds.

[Mr.Sparkle]

I'm going to pretend there is no punctuation in the first comment... tehehe...

[BLOCKQUOTE]"Well I guess you just aren't able to read"...
"I don't know what to do if you can't add two and two and get four"...[/BLOCKQUOTE]

I think he has a simple answer to complex questions, and is sure it makes sense. People who think about it differently (perhaps with more complexity?) and get a little stuck or unsure about the answers, like a lot of students for instance, are not stupid. They are doing a better job than Horowitz?

[Mr. Forward]

mmmmmmm Optimator.

[jordan]

Sounds like an opportunity lost. Maybe Horowitz is so accustomed to being attacked that he thinks an offense is the best defense. Unfortunately, when you stake out positions and views that make it impossible for the general Muslim population to side with you, you've forfeited the most critical constituency.

OT: CNN says 600 Marines from Camp Pendleton have volunteered to fight on the frontlines of the wildfires in California, many of them just returned fm Iraq. How good, solid and decent are these people.

Say thank you, Malibu.

[Lands’nGrooves]

From what I’ve seen of Mr. Horowitz on TV I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his flippant answers. Especially considering we don’t know what he was responding to.
For example, people yelling A**hole, A**hole sounds bad if not given the proper context.

“I actually had more common ground with the Muslim Student Association tonight than with my zionist neocon overlord”.

I certainly hope that this isn’t true.

[cletus]

I like Horowitz, like his ideas, but he is not a great speaker. Also, his writing is style is boring.

[Grimmy]

I don't understand how seemingly intelligent folk can continue under the delusion that those who don't get it by now are, in any way what so ever, worth any attempt at salvaging.

Those predisposed to be compromised on such easily understandable issues will always be open to compromise and exploitation. Even if they are temporarily brought to reality, they'll fade back out to their dream world at the slightest diversion.

Mr. Sparkle: What you are trying to put forward as superior intellect is in fact just paralysis by analysis. It's the hallmark of those unable to make decisions or choose a side in a fight. Such folk always end up as targets by both sides in the fight.

You still like to pretend that a position in the middle is survivable. Check out the concept of no-man's-land. That's the area between waring parties.

There's nothing complex, complicated or needing of explanation in any of this. We face an enemy that is dedicated to our destruction. All who stand with that enemy are equally enemy, all those who cant muster up the integrity or common sense to stand against the enemy, are also, by default, counted with the enemy.

That's how it works. That's how it has always worked. That is how it will always work. All the cutesy poo pseudo intellectual word games wont change it.

There's no need for some great speaker or cult of personality figure to come sway the crowd. Those that don't get it, cant get it and there's no reason to waste the effort pretending otherwise. Everything that can be said has been said ad nauseum.

[sgtted]

Um I hope you guys are aware that the National Muslim Student Ass'n. was founded by the Muslim Brotherhood. You will notice that they say nothing about Sharia in Muslim Countries and opposed Horowitz appearance at the College. It is also a prominent part of ANSWERs steering committee and has a large presence at their anti-war rallies.

Horowitz merely tells the truth about how women and gays are treated in countries run by Muslims, but Horowitz is the ""racist, fascist, anti-gay, right-wing bigot"?

It's called taqqiya, folks. Muslims don't consider it a sin to lie to infidels in furthering Islamic supremacy.

[Bill from INDC]

This sounds like Jimbo practicing domestic COIN:

"

"It would have been a total bomb, but Ebo decided we needed a pitcher of Optimator in the Rathskeller and we spent about an hour talking with a couple of groups of folks who came in opposition to Horowitz. It was enagaging, entertaining and so completely superior to the waste of time that was the theater in the theater, that we resolved to attend the Muslim dialogue tomorrow night. I truly enjoyed the discussion with some folks who, although we disagreed on much, came with much more open minds and helpful attitudes than the headliner."

[genco3]

Grimmy- You've got some facts wrong and conflated two separate issues-

Taqiyya is a Shi'a practice and is used to dissimulate faith and not ardent desire for 'islamic supremacy'. There exists no such concept in Sunnism.

MSA's are not funded by foreign organizations although they may have been in their nascent stage some thirty to twenty years back. To imply that contemporary MSA's are funded by terrorist groups-in a post 9/11 world where domestic security has never been more pronounced-is highly ignorant.

MSA students are born in America and have nothing to do with Sharia--why should they be held responsible for its condemnation? Many might even not know what sharia is. This probably troubles you greatly but 21st century American Muslims have more in common with you than they do with their co-religionists overseas. They are English speaking, Western educated Americans who are, in many cases, ignorant or even indifferent to the fundamentals of their faith and would be more likely to be seen at a local night club than supporting 'islamic supremacy'.

Also, the UW MSA did not organize the pre-speech demonstration.

[sirkowski]

Horowitz? Would you expect anything else from a bloody Marxist?

[sgtted]

genco3,

Those are my remarks, not Grimmy's.

But, the MSA opposes the IFAW, but remains silent on the oppression going on in the Heart of their religion, Mecca.

Ignoring the MSA's founding by a terrorist organization and their continueing ties to radicals is foolish.

In March 2003, speaker Muammad Faheed told an MSA meeting at Queensborough Community College in New York, "The only relationship you should have with America is to topple it!"

At its Annual Conference in 2003, the Iowa Muslim Student Association invited, as a guest speaker, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad, who had told a college audience in 1994, "I am a supporter of the Hamas movement."

In 2003, University of Idaho MSA President Sami Omar Al-Hussayen was ordered deported because he worked for the Islamic Assembly of North America, which has ties to al Qaeda. While on campus, Al-Hussayen had sought access to a chemical lab containing nuclear material.

In 2002, James Madison University's MSA sponsored a "Jihad" panel that included Dr. Abdulrahman Hijazi, who had once extolled an Islamic suicide bomber as a "martyr" whose actions were animated by a hope of securing "the mercy of Allah" by means of "one of the greatest good deeds, which is jihad."

A notable former member of MSA is Asan Akbar, an American Muslim extremist who attended the MSA-controlled student mosque at the University of California, Davis. After college, Akbar joined the U.S. Army and, in the early hours of March 23, 2003, he intentionally detonated a grenade amidst sleeping members of his 1st Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division stationed in Kuwait -- killing two and wounding fifteen.

On October 22, 2000, Ahmed Shama, then-president of the UCLA Muslim Students' Association, led a crowd of demonstrators at the Israeli consulate in chants of "Death to Israel!" and "Death to the Jews!" One guest speaker at the event was Hamid Ayloush, a member of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), which co-sponsored the rally. In his speech, Ayloush solicited contributions for the aforementioned Holy Land Foundation.

At a January 21, 2001 MSA event, guest speaker Imam Abdul Alim Musa declared: "If you were to say that the Soviet Union [would be] wiped off the face of the earth … people would have thought you were crazy, right? The people of Afghanistan didn't have the intellect or historical knowledge to know that they wasn't supposed to wipe out the Soviet Union, is that right? … We saw the fall of one so-called superpower; Old Sam [the U.S.] is next."

So, excuse me if I don't buy the rhetoric about jihad being a "personal inner struggle" and not a call to wage war against infidels.

[sheik yer'mami]

Hahaha!

The old chestnut about 'kitman & taqiyya is a Shiite thing, the Sunni's don't lie'- that's about as good as A-mad-in-jihad going on record with "I'm a Muslim, a cannot tell a lie'-

Look folks: When a Muhammedan opens his mouth he/she lies. Islam doesn't allow them to criticise their totalitarian belief-system, and they must tell lies to 'defend Islam' from the infidel.

The whole structure of Islam is based on lies, and every believing Muhammedan becomes, inevitably, a pathological liar.

More here:

http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/22/islam/

[Old Tanker]

sgtted - 2

genco3 - 0

sgtted, don't ya know, all us infidels is supposed to be ig'nant.

[Caleb]

UJ - I am confused. You have posted your dislike of both O'Reilly and Limbaugh, both excellent speakers, because they are arrogant and blowhards who speak with a great deal of passion and ferver. Now you denigrate Horowitz, who is an academic type, a policy nerd, but NOT the greatest speaker in the world, because you find him boring.

I really dislike saying this, but I get the distinct impression that you will find anyone wanting if they are not you or part of your entourage of ex-active duty troops and their kin. Sir, you seem to be an intelligent person with a lot to offer the blogosphere. You certainly have experience that is needed to be distributed to the public at this time in our nation's history. I am very afraid that you are letting a supreme ego on your part color your judgement about people that agree with you on the issues, but whom you do not feel are worthy of your approbation.

Do try to remember that Horowitz knows where of he speaks. He spent many years as an integral part of the extreme radical anarchist Left. He was there when many of the plans and schemes were being developed, and the techniques settled on, so that recruits could be taught the process. I am sorry that Horowitz is not the most dynamic speaker that this country has ever produced, but I shall continue to pay close attention to what he has to say, as he has been there and done that, and is now trying to rescue our once great nation from the very folks that he was once a part of.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Caleb,

That is a valid point aand I would defend myself by saying that once again I probably agreed with 90+% of everything Horowitz said, I simply believe his approach is counter-productive.

If I had attempted the same thing it would have been called the International Terrorist Comedy Festival and the first thing would have been a screening of Monty Python's Life of Brian. Everyone would have been laughing their asses off about the People's Front of Judea and their beef with the Judean People's Front "Splitters!"

Bomb throwing gets all the attention, but Mr. Ardolino had it correct COIN starts at home.

Cordialy,

Uncle J

[Uncle Jimbo]

The vid from Life of Brian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxMLgwOqHcU

Cordially,

Uncle J

[Old Tanker]

Uncle J,

Now THAT brings back memories...

thwow him to the fwoor Centuwian, ...for making fun of Bigus Dickus

[Mr.Sparkle]

Grimmy said: "There's nothing complex, complicated or needing of explanation in any of this."

The fact you view it as simple undoubtedly accounts for that special attitude you present to differing opinions.

It's not superior intellect either, just perspective. Just look at what you are calling simple: the mechanics of your country, the way states work - all their intricate parts that make the whole. There is an academy filled with contention on this subject.

Do you think the halls of the Pentagon and Whitehouse are dissentless and debateless?

[Ymarsakar]

It sounds to me like you're engaging in insurgency at home, instead of counter-insurgency at home, Jimbo.

After all, which insurgency domestically is COIN supposed to be targeting? If we are attempting to gain allies, then would not the most critical allies be people already in a domestic insurgency against us?

[Uncle Jimbo]

I'm not answering your question because it made my puny little brain hurt.

Cordially,

Uncle J

But yes.

[Mr.Sparkle]

Ymarsakar is being too ambiguous to make sense.

Caleb, UJ was not being contradictory - the fundamental problem that exists with both Horowitz and Limbaugh is they divide and alienate.

What's the point with this process beyond academic exercise if you merely entrench existing opinions?

[shmopot]

I thought the content of Mr. Horowitz's talk was superb even if his performance maybe was not. But he's 68, has been a serious & tireless academic activist for many years, has been following a demanding lecture schedule, and his voice clearly was showing the strain. His focus on the abuse of women and their lack of rights in Muslim societies coupled with the silence of Women's Studies programs simply could not be dismissed by either the Muslims or the Leftists in the audience. And I thought his displayed annoyance with the immature mocking laughter that erupted at times showed that he has grown weary of pointing out the obvious to slow-learning Leftists - a group that he knows inside and out.

[Old Tanker]

Mr. Sparkle, you just called Ymar ambiguous..

Hahaha, you, calling someone ambiguous!!!!

Hey, that's just my perspective.....

[MICHAEL in MI]

Uncle Jimbo - I wrote the following this afternoon on my lunch hour, but did not have time to post it. I still am perplexed at your statement about the Muslim Students Association and your 'common ground' with them. Unless you can provide some proof that their UW-Madison chapter is far removed from the goals of the national chapter, I'm still at a loss for your attacks on Mr. Horowitz and your seeming approval of the MSA.

*****

I actually had more common ground with the Muslim Student Association tonight than with my zionist neocon overlord.

Uncle Jimbo - I echo the sentiment of Lands'nGrooves. You cannot possibly be serious. And, if you are, then your credibility on matters
related to the domestic jihad being waged here in America just plummeted in my opinion.

The Muslim Students Association supports Hamas and Hezb'Allah. You know, those Islamic terrorist groups which kill your fellow military brothers and sisters and whose goal is to wipe out Israel and kill your fellow Americans? And you found yourself having common ground with them? I'm speechless. Well, actually I am not, but I am trying to refrain from my usual emotional rants and express myself more rationally and eloquently. But right now, I cannot even fathom what has become of you if you have anything in common with a group who supports the wiping out of Israel and the killing of Americans.

LGF - Muslim Students Association

Discover the Networks - Muslim Students Association of U.S. and Canada (MSA)

Founded by members of the Muslim Brotherhood, MSA's mission is "to serve the best interest of Islam and Muslims in the United States and Canada so as to enable them to practice Islam as a complete way of life." Offshoots of MSA include the Islamic Medical Association, the
Muslim Arab Youth Association, the Association of Muslim Social Scientists, the Islamic Circle of North America, and the Islamic Society of North America.

MSA was named in a May 1991 Muslim Brotherhood memorandum as one of the Brotherhood's likeminded "organizations of our friends." These "friends" -- which included also the Islamic Society of North America, the Islamic Circle of North America, the Muslim Arab Youth Association, the Islamic Association for Palestine, the United Association for Studies and Research, and the International Institute of Islamic Thought -- were identified by the Brotherhood as groups that could help teach Muslims "that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and
destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions."

According to author and Islam expert Stephen Schwartz, MSA is a key lobbying organization for the Wahhabi sect of Islam. From its inception, MSA had close links with the extremist Muslim World League, whose chapters' websites have featured not only Osama bin Laden's propaganda, but also publicity-recruiting campaigns for Wahhabi subversion of the Chechen struggle in Russia. MSA solicited donations for the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, whose assets the U.S. government seized in December 2001 because that organization was giving financial support to the terrorist group Hamas. MSA also has strong ties to the World Assembly of Muslim Youth.

Charging that U.S. foreign policy is driven by militaristic imperialism, MSA steadfastly opposes the American military incursions into both Afghanistan and Iraq. The organization is also harshly critical of Israel's allegedly oppressive policies vis a vis the Palestinian people residing in the West Bank and Gaza. In MSA's view, for example, the anti-terrorist security fence that Israel has built in the West Bank is an illegal "apartheid wall" that violates the civil and human rights of Palestinians.

An influential member of International ANSWER's steering committee, MSA maintains a large presence at ANSWER-sponsored demonstrations. By supporting ANSWER, MSA tacitly endorses the agendas of the Marxist-Leninist Workers World Party which dominates ANSWER. At a March 15, 2003 anti-war rally in San Francisco, MSA representatives manned several booths where they displayed and distributed anti-Israel publications, banners, and placards. Many of these items contained the word "Israel" with the "s" replaced by a swastika; others likened a swastika to the Star of David.

Local chapters of MSA were signatories to a February 20, 2002 document, composed by the radical group Refuse & Resist (a creation of the
Revolutionary Communist Party's C. Clark Kissinger), condemning military tribunals and the detention of immigrants apprehended in connection with
post-9/11 terrorism investigations. The document read, in part: "[T]hey [the U.S. government] are coming for the Arab, Muslim and South Asian
immigrants. ... The recent 'disappearances,' indefinite detention, the round-ups, the secret military tribunals, the denial of legal representation, evidence kept a secret from the accused, the denial of any due process for Arab, Muslim, South Asians and others, have chilling similarities to a police state."

MSA strongly opposes the Patriot Act, which it describes as an "infamous" piece of legislation. The organization's chapters across the United States have similarly denounced virtually every other national security initiative implemented by the U.S. government since the 9/11 attacks.

MSA chose not to endorse or participate in the May 14, 2005 "Free Muslims March Against Terror," an event whose stated purpose was to "send a message to the terrorists and extremists that their days are numbered ... [and to send] a message to the people of the Middle East, the Muslim world and all people who seek freedom, democracy and peaceful coexistence that we support them."

There is much, much more. I suggest you read it all. I also suggest you cut David Horowitz some slack. Just like your expertise on Rush Limbaugh and his radio show, it sounds like you have the same amount of knowledge of the actions over the years of David Horowitz in exposing the domestic jihad waged by groups such as CAIR, MSA and Muslim American Society (MAS), all funded by Saudi Arabia and the Muslim Brotherhood. There are a lot of us who are getting pretty fed up with the actions of these groups and their supporters to wage domestic jihad here in America and when you write a post that basically trashes Mr. Horowitz and endorses the MSA, that goes a long way to hampering the effort against these groups. There are a lot of people who respect your expertise on military matters, Uncle Jimbo and, because of that, will take your word on these other issues like David Horowitz and the Muslim Students Association. You are doing a horrible disservice to the debate on this issue to treat it so flippantly.

Also, I say again, your statement that you have anything in common with the MSA is mindboggling, unless you know about as much about the MSA as you do about Rush Limbaugh and his show. It is one thing to be a divisive, pompous blowhard when it comes to meaningless issues like Rush
and his show. It is quite another to be that way on the most important issue of our time - Islamic Totalitarianism and its goal of destroying the West from within.

[Grimmy]

Mr Sparkle:

Yeah. I can be a bit short with mealy mouthed douche bags and mindlessly moronic regurgitaters of idiocy and bullshit poured into ears by an incompetent and enemy sympathetic media.

You got me. I'm just a mean ol' traditionalist. No pomo pussified weak-suck "lets just talk it away" crap for me. No endlessly convoluted intellectually inbred pretense at great and grand confusion when situations are as clear cut and straight forward as have ever existed in history.

I'm just a bad bad person.

Questions for the equivocators among us:

1. What percentage of our muslim "moderates" have stood the **** up and had themselves counted as four-square and fully on the US side in this war? Combine both civil agencies and military. %50? %40? %30? or is it more like less than %.01?

2. What percentage of our muslim "moderates" profess a desire to see the US put under sharia law? %.05? %20? or is it more around the %46 mark?

3. Have we seen an escalation in the recent years of attempts to have special laws, rules and accommodations for our mulsim "moderates"?

4. Are there pre-existing patterns in other nations that show where such escalations are driving toward?

There's many ways to be suicidal. Trying to pet the head of a rabid dog in order to convince it not to bite you is a very convoluted way to go about ceasing to exist But that is exactly what so many of us are committed to doing.

[SteveG]

"sit down and take your meds"?

Gotta love that nanny state... so were they in a little baggy on every seat?
Now that is how to run a lecture series... and don't show up late in the Jimbo seats or yours might go missing.... possibly traded to Miles the Anarchist for beers

[Michael Bérubé]

I can be a bit short with mealy mouthed douche bags and mindlessly moronic regurgitaters of idiocy and bullshit poured into ears by an incompetent and enemy sympathetic media.

You got me. I'm just a mean ol' traditionalist. No pomo pussified weak-suck "lets just talk it away" crap for me.

Me neither! I prefer pomo academic leftists who tell people like you that you have your head firmly wedged into your duodenum. Precisely how, O masculine manly one, will the United States be placed under sharia law? Will we be invaded? Infiltrated? Bombed? Or do you think the Islamists are just waiting for the quivering bedwetters of the American right to drown in their own noctural excretions?

As for "Islamo-fascism": the doddering and spittle-flecked Mr. Horowitz uses the term to refer to Sunni Al-Qaeda, Shi'ite Iran, Ba'athist Iraq, Pan-Arab nationalists, and, if you order right away, Hezbollah and Hamas for no extra cost. Why? Because, like you, he has no idea WTF he is talking about, that's why. And so, like extremists everywhere, he invents ways of pissing off and alienating moderate Muslims who are themselves the victims of Islamist radicalism.

But hey, don't take it from me -- take it from General John Abizaid.

[Uncle Jimbo]

MI Mike,

I was only uninformed about the context of Rush's statement, not about him or his support for the military. I simply found it plausible that he could have slipped and let something out. Heck if I wrote what I actually think about vets who go anti, it would not be pretty. But like everyone I restrain the lower elements of my psyche.

When I say I had more in common with the MSA than Horowitz I meant it and stand by it. I was interestd in actually having a dialogue and addressing issues of substance, Horowitz was interested in hurling insults amid a perfectly valid critique of radical Islam. But he was not interested in anything anyone else in that building believed.

I was and I met some interesting people who we spent an hour talking with. I may not share political goals with them, but they were hardly the Hamas loving terror supporters they have been painted as.

Just a heads up. I went to their event tonight and it's an Uncle J MSA lovefest. sorry brother. Heh.

Cordially,

Uncle J

[MICHAEL in MI]

Uncle Jimbo - I bet I could sit with the Westboro Baptist Church (or the CODE PINKos or International A.N.S.W.E.R. or IVAW) members and come away with a similar cordial opinion of them as you seem to have come away with a few members of one single chapter of the MSA.

As I said, take a look at the stories provided by Charles Johnson of the National MSA (to which I linked above) as well as what some of the local chapters have been doing at universities across the nation. No one has painted them incorrectly. You sat with a few people for an hour and saw a bad performance from David Horowitz and now paint Horowitz badly and the MSA in a good manner. Even you know better than to make judgements based on so little data.

I respect that you may have met and talked with some good members of the MSA. I bet there are probably some good people involved with CODE PINK, ANSWER and many other anti-military groups as well. This does not change my view of their organizations. I also respect the fact that David Horowitz may have had a bad night and made a very bad impression and represented the cause in a bad way. That does not change my opinion of the issue of Islamofascism or the groups which he has worked very hard in exposing for their efforts to spread Islamic sharia law here in America.

I don't take issue with your opinion so much as the fact that you don't, as far as I know from the Blackfive posts, have a great deal of background in commenting on Islamofascism and the work of groups such as MSA, MAS, Muslim Brotherhood, WAMY among others to spread 'radical' Islam here in America. Granted, just as I don't go to places like LGF and FrontPageMag for military analysis, I don't expect to come here for expertise in Islam and its efforts to spread here in America. However, what I don't expect to see here is a flippant denouncing of an expert in this area and a cordial painting of the MSA as some geniune nice guys.

Just as it would not go over very well for me to come out of nowhere and post a blog about my bad experience with some pro-troops supporters who were rude and obnoxious and violent while some CODE PINKos and ANSWER folks and Westboro Baptist Church members were quite cordial and I had more in common with them than the pro-troops supporters... without giving some long background on the history of good works by the pro-troops side (Gathering of Eagles and Patriot Guard Riders, etc) and the bad works of the anti-military side... this post by you grates on me in the same manner.

[GrizzlyMama]

Great reporting - thanks. Very interesting when compared to the Nonie Darwish presentation.

Every time I hear Horowitz speak I am disappointed. I think he's a great writer. Not a good speaker, though.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I take no offense Mike but understand one or two things about what I have done and feel quite comfortable commenting on. Much of my adult life I have been involved in counter-terror and counter-narcotics and that requires a solid understanding of who, what, when, where and why. I spent lore time than most on that and still do.

LGF is a brilliant site and one of the most innovative and effective new media outlets. But Charles is not a terrorism expert he is a diligent and wise chronicler of the craziest stuff Islamists are doing and a better reporter of events in context than most of the MSM. He also wears Dan Rather's scalp, Bravo!

But if you believe he has more knowledge and insight about global terrorist organizations than I do you are mistaken. And I do not insult Charles at all, his accomplishments are epic. Just understand what they are and revise your estimate of my potential ignorance. I spent much more time on who is who and why are they causing trouble than I did on how to ventilate a cranium.

Cordially,

Uncle J

[MICHAEL in MI]

Uncle Jimbo - Sometimes I forget how much background and experience all of you have in the military blog community. Much of which you probably cannot share. I respect all you do and have done. I sometimes get a little carried away and I probably did here as well. I apologize for that.

That said, my main gripe is with the seeming broad brush denouncement of Mr. Horowitz and the broad brush praise of the MSA. Considering none of you here spend much time on the MSA or Mr. Horowitz, and I don't know how much others who read this site are informed about either party or the spread of 'radical' Islam through these Muslim Brotherhood front groups, I felt that this one post would come across to many as "Horowitz is a loon who is off his rocker in everything he does" and "hey, those MSA people aren't so bad". And then everyone goes back to sleep about the threat of Islamofascism here in America.

So while I will admit my naivete when it comes to what I know and don't know about your extensive background in counterterrorism, I stand by my critique of this post in general. As I said, I have developed a great respect for many of you military members who share your expertise with us through your milblogs - all of you here, Greyhawk at Mudville, Dadmanly, Soldier's Dad, Neptunus Lex, the gentlemen at Op-For, among SO many others - as I expect others have as well. And many times, with that respect comes trust. And wit that trust many times comes blind trust on anything the person states. For people with not too much exposure to what Mr. Horowitz or the MSA is all about, and this is their first insight into them, I worry they will come away without knowing about them in full context.

[Shalmanessar]

"Taqiyya is a Shi'a practice and is used to dissimulate faith and not ardent desire for 'islamic supremacy'. There exists no such concept in Sunnism." -- genco3

genco3, once again a liberal like you is found to be playing the "you lack nuance and knowledge on a complex issue" card--without even knowing much or having much in the way of nuance to add, other than saying what *feels* best to say.

Because a liberal always believes something is right just because it feels good to say. The truth? The nuanced truth?

Sunnism has promoted global dominance of Islam and has articulated that position since at least Al-Mawardi, a very important Sunni Islamic scholar of the 11th century. He died several decades *before* the first crusade, so tough luck there, Mr Nuance. He was not the first to speak of a Dar Al-Islam and a Dar al-Harb either.

Basically, in trying to appear oh-so more refined on this subject, you have ended up revealing that you read an "Islam for Dummies" book written by a moderate Muslim and think that constitutes what you deem *nuance*. How utterly droll.

---------------

Jimbo, I found it interesting that your approach would have been to make Islamic terrorism into a Monty Python skit.

I makes me chuckle that you took offense to Horowitz saying the crowd was anti-intellectual, meanwhile you thought a serious and complex issue could be handled with a comedy skit...

I guess Pete Stark is right after all. All those guys are dying for the President's amusement: a big Monty Python-esque joke. Wow.

[Ymarsakar]

The fact you view it as simple undoubtedly accounts for that special attitude you present to differing opinions.

Grimmy just got tired of dealing with certain people. Those living in the bubble have certain abrasive qualities that are not desired by the greater chunk of humanity.

Caleb, UJ was not being contradictory

Spark can't even recognize ambiguity when he sees it.

I spent much more time on who is who and why are they causing trouble than I did on how to ventilate a cranium.

That sounds like you cross trained in intelligence gathering in addition to weapons qualification, oops I mean peaceful benediction qualification.

the broad brush praise of the MSA.

For most subversive and agent provocateur organizations, they are usually composed of cannon fodder and useful idiots at the lower level. Meaning, average people in whatever organizations are simply that, average. Good, bad, terrible, and so forth. It is only at the leadership and policy decision level that you get to the people that actually are organizing attacks against America. Membership means that they are a part of such efforts, if only involuntarily and indirectly, but it also means that they are not tied irrevocably to the Cause. This is Jimbo's meta point, I believe. He could talk to certain MSA members because they were regular folks, without the ideological brainwashing that comes from higher echelon politics or Arab cultures.

[LLP]

DRAFT college Republicans!

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com

Don't these wusses want to take part in the "defining struggle of their generation" and help save the world from the islamic fascists?

[Uncle Jimbo]

How 'bout we draft people too foolish to understand the supreme lameness of the chickenhawk argument.

Cordially,

Uncle J

[USpace]

.
Great post and video, it's too bad Horowitz wasn't better.

Do so-called ‘Liberals’ really support GLBT Rights?! Apparently not. Fight back against those that stone gays to death! Democracy NOT Theocracy!

STOP KUFFARPHOBIA Demonstration at Whitehall in London, 12pm Friday 10/26/07!

I think we all must start calling the Islamofascists ‘racists’. We should scream that they are hateful towards the Christian race, and the Jewish race, and the Hindu race, and the Atheist Race, that they are Christianityphobiasts. They will scream that Christianity is not a race, and we’ll say:

“See, Islam is NOT a race either.
And by the way, the Bible doesn’t say to convert, conquer or kill non-Christians; like the Koran says to do to non-Muslims. So there YOU RACIST hater of non-Muslims! You’re a Kuffarphobic!”

Be careful all you in London Friday 10/26!

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absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
don’t call a spade a spade

Islamist terrorism
not related to Islam

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
you have NO rights

to hate religions
that demand to convert you

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe calls
for sick ideologies

that deny human rights
KILL adulterers and gays

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
be very afraid…

of saying the wrong things
TRUTH is especially BAD

http://absurdthoughtsaboutgod.blogspot.com

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

:)
. .