Betrayus ad polls at 58% disapproval

Posted By Uncle Jimbo

While Markos and the nutroots make the noise and have been getting the Democrat candidates to dance every time they crank the organ, they are danger in an election. A good look at that is reactions to the Betrayus ad, which most of the left thought was too soft on the boot-licking lackey of the Bush crime family. Turns out not everyone is willing to sacrifice the military to the haters of the anti team.

Twenty-three percent (23%) of Americans approve of an ad run in the New York Times “that referred to General Petraeus as General Betray Us.” A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 58% disapproved. Those figures include 12% who Strongly Approve and 42% who Strongly Disapprove.

Self-identified liberals were evenly divided—45% approve and 39% disapprove. However, only 19% of moderate voters approve while 62% disapprove.

The problem with having the hater wing of your party as it's mouthpiece is they are saying things that most Americans find offensive. Most Americans consider it low and contemptible to slander a man who has spent his life making sure these same swine are free to act like petty children. It is also informative they only draw 23% approval, that's gotta sting. I filed a complaint with the FEC, not because I thought MoveOn should be stopped from running the ad, on the contrary I think they should be encouraged to remind people just how freakin' foolish they are. But they shouldn't be allowed to cheat laws that are designed to stop them from exactly the cheating they engaged in.

Americans aren't haters and you cannot appeal to a majority of us with hate and disgust for our country as your message. But keep trying.

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/2819/21883731

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Betrayus ad polls at 58% disapproval:

Comments

[Cincinnati_Bob]

One would think.

[Cannoneer No4]

These Quislings are out in the open, now. They are on record. They do not think General Petraeus deserves the full support of the Senate and they do not condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces.

Akaka (D-HI) — voted to confirm Petreaus January 26, 2007
Bingaman (D-NM) — voted to confirm Petreaus January 26, 2007
Boxer (D-CA) – did not vote on Petreaus’ confirmation
Brown (D-OH) – voted to confirm
Byrd (D-WV) — voted to confirm
Clinton (D-NY) — voted to confirm
Dodd (D-CT) — voted to confirm
Durbin (D-IL) — voted to confirm
Feingold (D-WI) — voted to confirm
Harkin (D-IA) — voted to confirm
Inouye (D-HI) — did not vote on Petraeus’ confirmation
Kennedy (D-MA) — voted to confirm
Kerry (D-MA) — did not vote on Petraeus’ confirmation
Lautenberg (D-NJ) — voted to confirm
Levin (D-MI) — voted to confirm
Menendez (D-NJ) — voted to confirm
Murray (D-WA) –voted to confirm
Reed (D-RI) — voted to confirm
Reid (D-NV) — voted to confirm
Rockefeller (D-WV) — voted to confirm
Sanders (I-VT) — voted to confirm
Schumer (D-NY) — voted to confirm
Stabenow (D-MI) — voted to confirm
Whitehouse (D-RI) — voted to confirm
Wyden (D-OR) — voted to confirm

This is the HATER WING in the Senate. These people are part of our government. These people have the power to destroy any officer or Other Government Agency employee who tries to protect the American people from enemy propaganda.

Anybody who supports the troops and their mission and wants victory will be targeted by the HATER WING of the Democrat Party. The GWOT has been fought the way it has been so far because the HATER WING has opposed, obstructed, demogogued and delayed at every turn.

I have given up on bipartisanship.

The Cold Civil War in this country has to be won if we are ever to win the GWOT.

[Cincinnati_Bob]

Well, the HATER WING is the entire Democrat party. Those who squeak in dissent are meaningless.

What I'm saying is that This is Serious Enough so that if you are a democrat and you do not agree with the vocal, visible obstructionist leadership of the party, you tell them to go to hell, and you change to Independent or Republican. Else, you are meaningless and no more than a tool.

[MICHAEL in MI]

The problem, Uncle Jimbo, is that we are 14 months outside of the 2008 election. We all saw what the Leftists did to win in 2006: late smear campaign against Mark Foley and the Republicans in addition to their campaign of lying about their stance on the war effort and running "moderate" Democrats, who were supposed to represent their constituents, but instead simply were used to give the power in Congress to the Nancy Pelosi's and her Moveon.ogre and Daily Kos coalition.

Last year leading up to the 2006 mid-terms, I was certain that the Democrats would lose big, since they were exposing themselves as anti-military and cut-and-run traitors. But, unfortunately, not too many of the voting public was paying attention. The Democrats worked a great campaign of lies and distortions of the truth and then had their last-minute smear campaign.

If there was any integrity in the Presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama would be eliminated from the race already with their corruption, ineptness with regards to military matters and, in the case of Barack Obama, utter emptiness of any concrete ideas or taking any stances on tough issues.

In addition, the mass media is carrying the water for the Democrats, helping them with their smear campaigns and also twisting and distorting and covering up anything and everthing with regards to the war effort. And they have now made it conventional wisdom that any military member who talks of success in the war effort is just a neocon stooge of the hated Bush Administration.

And sadly, it's only going to get worse in the months ahead. Much, much worse.

We all know George Soros and the Moveon.orges have plenty of mud they are lining up to fling in the coming months. They will do anything and everything to smear the war effort and anyone who supports it. They will smear the President (as they did with his Mandela comment the other day), smear every military member, even respected Generals and smear the Republicans in any way possible to further their goals for power.

I don't know how accurate polls are nowadays, but in this information age, the fact that 23% of Americans approve of an add calling our top General a traitor simply for reporting the facts on the ground that we all have been reading here at Blackfive, Mudville Gazette, Bill Roggio, Michael Fumento, Michael Yon, NRO THE TANK - among SO MANY others - for the past few years... well, that's extremely worrisome to me.

The only thing we can do though, I guess, is keep on keepin' on with getting out the facts and do what we can to spread the word far and wide to anyone who is willing to listen and is open to facts and truth. Sadly, it seems the percentage of Americans who fall into that category nowadays is dwindling.

What you call the HATER WING of the Democrat Party seems to be getting bigger. Not because of any good ideas from the Democrat Party, but because of... well, HATE. Immaturity, naivete, ignorance, stubbornness, close-mindedness and sometimes just plain stupidity.

I have to admit that I am very worried about our future, especially when it seems so many nowadays are not truly interested in knowing the facts about issues such as healthcare, the war effort, illegal immigration and the economy.

And when the Daily Kos and pretty much everyone on the Left bends down and praises a terrorist leader and welcomes him into our country, gives him a platform to speak his propaganda and strengthens his position in Iran as well as the entire Arab/Muslim world by validating him... that's more than worrisome.

I dunno, Uncle Jimbo. I hope you are right that Americans are not haters and one cannot appeal to the majority with a message of hate. I thought that going into the midterms in 2006 and was utterly flabbergasted by the outcome of that election. I lost faith in the American people after that election. Nowadays, I don't have much faith in anything anymore, except for God and our military. But these days, both God/Christianity and the military are demonized seemingly by a majority of the country, while praising terrorist leaders and going further and further into dhimmitude with regards to the political totalitarian ideology of Islam, which masks itself under the guise of only being a "religion".

I dunno. I really don't know anymore. I'm very worried. We have a lot of work to do in the next 14 months. But recent events don't give me too much hope that even the most intensive campaigning in the history of the Republican Party can overcome the ignorance, immaturity and apathy of the American public, fueled by the piss poor public educational system, piss poor leftist, hate-America university system, leftist mass media and leftist entertainment industry and the power of smear coming from the George Soros- and DailyKos-machine.

[Cincinnati_Bob]

"UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon advised world governments to give clear signs of their capability to take practical measures to combat climate change."

Well, ... New Boss, same as the Old Boss! The UN is officially screwed for the duration of this tool. At least his name isn't so offensively pretentious.
Well, I had to get it off my chest eh?

Oh, btw, one of - or the- chief scientist on the Al Gore team for Global Warming, James Hansen, was one of the lead researchers, making the case for a soon coming Ice Age in the 70's !!! LOL.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=275267681833290

[Cannoneer No4]

MICHAEL, butch up, cup cake, your gloom and doom is bringing me down.
Don't make me poke you in the ass with my Hastae

[MICHAEL in MI]

Sorry, Cannoneer, that wasn't my intention to bring anyone else down. Just trying to put everything out on the table that I know we all have to deal with for the next 14 months and hoping that others would have good answers on how to solve all the issues.

I'm not giving up and I don't want others to give up either, but I just don't want people to underestimate our enemies... our domestic enemies. Of which, we have many. I underestimated those enemies leading up to the 2006 mid-terms and I overestimated the voting public.

I don't want that to happen again.

[eaglesdontflock]

We are in a hell of a mess, Michael. You forgot one other little ploy of the haters-market manipulation before the 2004 and 2006 elections to drive up gas prices and blame it on the Republicans. Can you say Buffett, Lewis and Soros?

We have all these Russian spies in the US and what appears to be an alliance between the US Marxists and the terrorists, as well as Communists around the globe. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

We need to smarten up.

[Cincinnati_Bob]

Michael in MI.

I agree 23% is no damn good.

I feel like being concerned that former gangbangers, like 50 cent are millionaires, and revered in popular culture. That this is now the culture to aspire to if you are born into a challenging environment. Kill some people, write some lame rhymes, get rich.
Call me extremist, but All Part of the Communist Agenda.
Give Single Mother Child Abusers Mo Money for Bring More Children into Abusive Environments!
Close the Orphanages and Put all the foster children into Pedophile Homes, and bury the stores of abuse, telling us about slut morons like Brittany, and Lindsey instead.

Reality TV. WTH..

Music is about gone.
The Arts are all but gone. They are gone, replaced with an image of the Virgin Mary covered in feces on a wall somewhere.

I happened to catch a slice of the BET channel during working hours on the lunchroom TV one day recently. It was an animated rap song that went "Read a Book Read A Book, Read A M..F.. Book..." complete with an animated posterior of some chick humping up and down.
You gotta know, given the time of day, the number of single digit age children watching this crap.
Man, I remember being sent to bed when a lady come on a program with a bit too much cleavage on display...Not that I'm a prude, but I'm sure this isn't lost on ya...

Stick a fork in it my friends.
It occurs to me these days that the best way to get rid of a pile of trash is to make it so big it cannot be ignored any more.

Look who is rich. Would you give these people your money? I wouldn't but it sure seems the majority would. We are living in a world of bathroom humor.

[MICHAEL in MI]

This is part of what we are up against: Townhall.com - Dean Barnett: Surprise! Bollinger's Speech Gets an A

The Daily Kos has a diary up reviewing Ahmadenijad’s Daily Press Club speech that concludes, “I have to say that I think our government and the MSM have really spun us on Iran and this guy… He ain't such a bad man.”

Those who report that Iran has been killing our soldiers in Iraq are considered betrayers who are spreading lies for the neocon agenda. And President Bush is Hitler and a terrorist. Yet the real incarnation of Hitler... "He ain't such a bad man".

Also, keep in mind, the Daily Kos has been endorsed by every single Democrat Presidential candidate. They are the self-proclaimed "mainstream" of the Democrat Party.

While the mass media swoons over Hitler Jr, hardly anyone in the United States has seen these pictures of the reality in Iran: The Jawa Report - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Says

Just as CNN covered up the atrocities of the Saddam Hussein regime and hardly anyone in America and the West even know the truth about those atrocities.

[Miss Ladybug]

Michael in MI~

For all the seats the Republicans lost in Congress in 2006, many of those individual races were very close, and in a lot of those close races, the Republicans was facing one of those "Blue Dog" Democrats who were running to the right of the Republican on certain issues. I also think that a lot of traditionally Republican voters stayed home because they were pi$$ed off about things like out of control spending and other "conservative" things the "conservative" party wasn't doing. Hopefully, with the utter uselessness/dangerousness of the Democratic-controlled Congress, Americans who voted Dem last time, or who stayed home last time, will get off their a$$es and vote Republican this time around, both for Congress and The White House.

[girlfriendofasoldier]

This is slightly Off-Topic, but relevant:

I actually got the honor of e-mailing and recieving a response from General Petraeus today. Though I am not at liberty (for security reasons) to disclose exactly what was discussed with his assistant Major, I can say this: He dilligently researched my request and concerns. He took time out from a war to read my e-mail and act on it. I'm nobody. He even had his Major call me back and say that my e-mail was "thoughtful".

That means a lot to me. It brought tears to my eyes. I look up to that General. He is responsible for keeping my friends, family and boyfriend safe. To know that he honored a simple request from a lowly civilian really speaks volumes about his character.

I read somewhere that he wants to be president someday. I don't know how true or untrue that statement is, but I would vote for him any day of the week!

Just to share- his assistant Major did all the talking with me on the phone and he misheard me. I said I have friends, family and a boyfriend over there.

He said, "Well, I hope your husband stays safe, ma'am." lol... The major de coup (I think is his title?), to the commanding 4-star General in Iraq just married me and Jason! LOLOLOL.....

[Soldier's Dad]

Poltico's always 'run to their base' early on...it is how they fill the campaign coffers. Later in the election process..they run to the 'center'.

[Robert]

Like most Republicans and Right-wing supporters of the Iraq War, I've never been in the military.
So Patraeus, never "Betrayed" me.
He betrayed the soldiers, who are dying at a spectacular rate while he carries the water for the neo-cons.

BTW, since you like to site polls in your arguements, what % of Americans (and iraqis) want us out of Iraq?

[girlfriendofasoldier]

Hey Robert,

That's General Petraeus, not PATraeus.
Maybe you need to go back to elementary school and hooked-on-phonics.

General Petraeus has NEVER betrayed our troops, ever. I wish you would cite proof of that! Did you know that the General is in Iraq fighting right alongside our boys? Did you know that his son is about to deploy soon?

I'm shocked and amazed at the number of liberals who don't know those 2 simple facts.

[RonF]

Most Americans consider it low and contemptible to slander a man who has spent his life making sure these same swine are free to act like petty children.

Yeah, but these are not most Americans. These are radical leftists. To them, the U.S. military is not, in fact, acting to protect the American nation and American citizens. The American military protects American corporations and imperialism, and furthers the marginalism and oppression of undocumented workers, the black and brown people of the world, homosexuals, poor people, etc., etc.

[jordan]

Robert, your thinking is all muddled up. Let me fix it for you. Petraeus hasn't betrayed anybody. The only betraying going on during his testimony was the Congress betraying the U.S. military. As even President Bush pointed out, those particular Congressmen and Senators were more fearful of angering MoveOn than they were of angering the U.S. military.

Soldiers are not dying at a "spectacular" rate. In terms of historical casualty counts in warfare, this one is low.

Congress voted to send our troops in. Then, they held funding hostage and made public pronouncements that endangered those very troops who were out doing the government's bidding. They preened politically out of self-interest despite the fact that it would further restrict the ability of the military to fight the war effectively, thereby prolonging it and causing even more casualties.

Petraeus is trying to minimize those casualties, and win at the same time. He's not only up against the enemy, but against other Americans who try to undercut our troops and increase the dangers to them with their reckless and irresponsible rhetoric. And all just to land a blow on the hated Administration, whatever the cost. That's where the true betrayal lies.

Congress voted them in. Then, when the fight got tough and ugly, as wars inevitably do, they absolved themselves of accountability and blamed others. They threatened to cut off funding, leaving troops in a hot war abandoned on the battlefield. There's your betrayal, right there.

[john Ryan]

58% v. 42 %
Well I bet Bush wishes he could score 42%

[Robert]

C'mon. he was in charge of our weaponry when we lost 200,000 weapons in iraq (I know, that doesn't count because Bill Clinton wasn't the president at that time, but still).
There's more proof those weapons are killing US soldiers, than weapons supplied by Iran or Syria are.

The general let himself get involved in politics, now you whiners are mad that insulting the general is for political reasons.

I agree that congress is a joke. They should be embarassed for letting themselves be baited into supporting a war of aggression, just so they wouldn't look weak. (Not all of them, some are just in the pockets of the war profiteers).

Sorry, kids. this war can not be won.
Let's bring our troops home, give the iraqis control of their resources, and pledge to help solve the problems we caused in iraq.

BTW, our President is a moron. He (supposedly) has an MBA, but still doesn't know the first thing about "sunken costs".

As for MoveOn, why should they be ashamed for pointing out the truth?
Let them be cast to the scrapheap of history, just like everyone else who had the temerity to point out (correctly) that this war would be a disaster.

BTW, Nice job by our powerful military fighting a bunch of teenagers to a 4+ year standstill.
They should be so proud of themselves.

[Robert]

Correction: "more proof" should be "as much proof".

[MICHAEL in MI]

Don't feed the troll.

[Caper2]

Guys:

John and Robert are back!

Great, that means their bosses think that this site is having an impact. So they are sending the Truth(er) special troll patrol.

Well done!

El Coqui

[Danjr0802]

Well, I don't think anyone is thrilled with the AD if for no other reason than it was a distraction from a rather serious topic.

But I also don't think it does what people seem to imply it does. It's just a dumb ad by a dumb group and I don't think it impacts the war opinion or whether things are going well or whether people think we should stay and fight or leave.

Whether people agree with the ad or not is rather moot because not only is it not high on their list of priorities, because of that, they don't really care if people voted for or against a lame condemnation.

I consider myself a regular average guy. I generally view Washington Politicians, on both sides as bloviating air bags who are hypocritical on just about everything. They're all a bunch of old whores as far as me and my family are concerned. Whenever they have one of these silly morality votes on condemning this or that, I roll my eyes and think...what.... who are these old whores kidding with their condemnations? Shut the f**k up and get back to work. There's a god damned war on!

[Rich Casebolt]

I'm gratified to know that the Prez, being an old baseball guy, knows that, to win the game, you must keep your eye on the ball ...

... and not the scoreboard.

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010610

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/baqubah-update-05-july-2007.htm

We may be into extra innings ... but the game's not lost, friends.

Not by a long shot.

In large part due to our power hitting in this late-inning Surge -- and also because they have seen the lethally-poor sportmanship of the other team -- the Iraqis no longer believe the defeatist chatter of our own so-called Best and Brightest, regarding our nation and its intentions ...

... even when they try to bean the manager on the field, with a media spitball.

The bullpen is just warming up, defeatists ...

Yes we see right through you and your calls for peace
Right through to your core of disdain
For the principles that have made America great
And the freedom you say you proclaim
If you really want peace, then protest the terrorists
who crash planes and slaughter men like lambs ...
Your protests, my friends
Sound much like breaking wind
Your protests sound much like breaking wind

We -- and the Iraqi people -- won't be fooled again ...

[bdun41]

Uncle Jimbo (and friends) -
I trust that you are all just as sickened by Rush Limbaugh's comments several months back regarding Senator Hagel, right? I was unable to find an entry where you vented your frustration at the time but I'm sure one exists . . .somewhere.
What a bunch of hypocrites you are.
And one more thing . . .I have yet to see a post about Dubya telling a group of military bloggers that he wishes he could serve in Iraq but he's too old. This coming from a boy of privilege who pulled every string he could to get out of a war he supported. That should flat out piss you people off. But it doesn't. He gets a pass. If a democrat said the same thing, you guys would burn him at the stake.
Hypocrisy isn't a flattering trait.
And for what it's worth - I absolutely support the troops who are fighting for our freedoms. I do not support the sons of bitches (who did everything they could to avoid war when they were of age) and their policies that got our boys stuck in Iraq. If you guys can't see that being critical of the policies of Bush (and yes, his political pawn General Petraeus) does not mean we are critical of the troops who are only carrying out orders, then you are blind. Blinded by your own politics.

[Rich Casebolt]

bdun41 ... if the criticism was principled, instead of political, I could agree with your last paragraph.

But it's very hard to tell, when the criticism appears to always start off with prerequisites like "Impeach Bush" or "fire Rumsfeld" ...

... or refers to the in-theater commander as "Gen. Betrayus".

Where is the constructive criticism, from a standpoint of working WITH the Administration to resolve the problems ... as opposed to REPLACING major elements of it ... while acknowledging what they ARE doing right?

Please remove the log from your own eyes ... for you are blind to the encouragement you give our enemies (ref: Ahmedinijad's speeches yesterday, which sounded a LOT like Democrat Party talking points) when you engage in such unprincipled criticism.

That is NOT supporting the troops, by any stretch of the imagination.

Y'all are also blind, when it comes to dealing effectively and decisively with totalitarian enemies.

We implemented the Left/Dem methodology on many occasions over many years ... and it did NOTHING to liberate people from oppression, did NOTHING to reduce international tensions on a sustainable basis ... sheesh, it did NOTHING to just simply reduce arms stockpiles ...

... and it did NOTHING to remove rogue regimes.

Since we have seen how a few dozen guys from backwards Afghanistan perpetrated the events of 11 September 2001 on a under-$1M budget, why does it make ANY sense to leave regimes who share AQ's view of life and liberty in the ABSOLUTE and unchallenged control of resource-rich, technically-modern nations?

Your conventional wisdom is OBSOLETE -- and has been for years. It is now too easy for even lower-tier Third World nations to wreak havoc upon our civilization ... yet y'all are obsessed with tying the hands of the rights-respecting nations who can stop them.

Don't give me the "Oil and Empire" BS -- even the Iraqis don't believe that anymore ... and they are in a position to know, up close and personal. For you and your ilk, this is all about payback for November 2000, and the restoration of your self-percieved birthright to rule as the Best and Brightest.

It is you, who are political.

We won't be fooled again ...

[bdun41]

Rich,

You couldn't have made my original point any better than with your own words. I guess if Rush Limbaugh says it, it's principled, but if it comes from the left, it's political.
And yes, the "conventional wisdom" of the democratic party is obsolete and your neocon administration has shown all of us the way. Have you really fooled yourself this much? This administration was warned by a number of Republicans (no, not the rubber-stamp ones) about the follies of going into Iraq. But George and Dick wanted it, pure and simple.
And don't even try and tell me that the democrats are in any way to blame for not working with the administration. Bush and his boys see things in only their terms and will not even consider budging. It's their sorry asses who got us into this brutal mess and they are the ones who want to keep it that way.
Finally, anyone who supports this administration has no right to call anyone else political. From timely (and bogus) terror alerts to rushed votes on war, your buddies are the lowest of the low.

[Rich Casebolt]

bdun41 ... spin, spin, spin.

The arrogance just keeps getting flung out, like waste from an Iranian centrifuge.

Actually there were predictions of much, much worse ... from your side of the debate ... which didn't come true.

From tens of thousands of US casualties, in a long slog to Baghdad ... to the notion that the Iraqis would be completely unable to form a civil society with rights-respecting governance.

Also keep in mind, that some of the problems at first were the result of distrust, stemming from the lack of material support for the post-Gulf-War uprising we encouraged ... another triumph of 20th-century conventional wisdom over sound principle, which placed deference to the UN and diplomatic community, along with a knee-jerk aversion to killing the enemy (i.e. along the "Highway of Death"), over the removal of a primary threat to regional peace.

In other words, more fruit of "your" conventional wisdom.

Yes we were optimistic ... OTOH, you were, and are still, willfully blind to the risks of leaving a totalitarian as Saddam in place.

It makes about as much sense as leaving a box of scorpions under your bed, in the hope they will be so occupied with each other that they won't spend time figuring out how to exit the box and enter your slippers.

Try answering my question (in boldface above).

I have yet to get a rational answer from a war opponent.

IMO, had we taken your course of action, we would have seen sequels to 911 by now, in part thanks to the plausibly-deniable support of Saddam Huessein.

Rushed? A "rush" to war over a year long?

Like I said ... even the Iraqi's don't believe your lies about this being "Bush's War" ... or the lies of "War for Oil" or "neocon empire" ... any more.

And where should the President have budged? For I have yet to see anything come from the antiwar camp other than variations on (1) cut-and-run or (2) the Powell Doctrine, which would be counterproductive in an asymmetrical environment.

Any compromise on those terms would be political in nature, and not contribute to the effective prosecution of this War.

Grow up ... accept the FACT that this war was justified and necessary ... and help us work the problems.

Or STHU ... and live in your smug self-assurance that you are so intellectually "superior" to the rest of us, that you are "above" the need for direct, timely, resolute, and DECISIVE armed action by this nation for your defense.

The millions liberated, tyrants removed from power, arms stockpiles reduced, and tensions reduced by the very "cowboy diplomacy" you sneer at illuminate the fact that the Best and Brightest who share your arrogance are a box of dim bulbs.

The real peace song is not "Kumbiyah" ...

... it is "Yippie-Ky-Ay-A"!

We won't be fooled again ...

[bdun41]

I'd love for you to show me where I spun in my previous post
- I pointed out that you refused to blame Rush for the same language as MoveOn
- The administration WAS warned by Republicans about going into Iraq
- You agreed that Bush will never compromise so what is there for Democrats to work with?
- And I said that this admin plays politics better than anyone
So . . .where's the spin?
As for my answer to your bold question (even though you still refuse to answer the question in my first post), how about this: YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO LINK 911 TO SADDAM. That's not not "smug self-assurance" it's fact. Talk about spin. Holy shit.
So since you refust to even answer my first, very basic question, there's probably no need for us to go back and forth any longer. Besides, since your answer to everything seems to be "blow them up", there's not much to work with.
Thank GOD you're in the "twenty percenter" crowd.
And millions liberated??? Stickpiles reduced??? What the hell? You've got to stop watching Fox news, for your own good.

[bdun41]

And regarding the rushed vote to war, I was referring to the vote in October 2002, just before the mid-term elections. They played politics by not waiting until after the elections - something Dubya's father refused to do in a similar situation a dozen years earlier.

[Rich Casebolt]

The spin, my friend, is in your regurgitation of the same ol' Leftist broad-brush talking points, that have been thoroughly debunked for a long time.

Like I said, even the Iraqis are no longer buying what you are selling. {al-Ameriki tribe} >> Google it.

I don't really care to answer your original, loaded question ... but I will say this; there is a big difference between denigrating a Senator who has shown signs of a limp backbone during a war, and tearing down the credibility of the in-theater commander during a war.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO LINK 911 TO SADDAM.

Read my lips: I am doing nothing of the sort.

Saddam didn't have to be "linked" to 911 at all, to present the same kind of threat ... actually, with the potential of presenting a far, far worse threat ... as what AQ brought forth from Afghanistan.

He had the means ... he had been in the terrorist-training/bankrolling/supplying business for YEARS ... and despite all the weapons inspection charades, NO ONE could conclusively say that he did not have at least small, terrorist-sized amounts of WMD to hand out.

He had the motive ... all the way from feeding his own meglomaniacial vision of himself as the new Saladin, to getting us off his back in the No-Fly Zones.

All he needed was the opportunity ... or a surrogate to implement it for him, just as AQ did 911.

To say that he was not a threat of the same type ... let alone ignore the threat he posed, AFTER someone else with far fewer capabilities killed 3000 people on American soil in less than three hours ... is a prime example of the arrogant, thick-headed idiocy that is a hallmark of the critics of this Administration.

It indicates a lack of common sense of the highest order ... supplanted by feel-good conventional wisdom, reinforced by that smug self-assurance I am talking about.

It is no woneder this Administration does not consider critics who think like you credible enough to listen to.

Neither I, nor this Administration, consider the answer to be just "blow-them-up" ... that is one reason this war is taking so long, and also runs counter to implementing a Powell Doctrine approach to the conflict (as if that would achieve any more than what we are doing today ... except provide the enemy with more target practice), as has been repeatedly suggested by critics.

And, regarding the millions liberated and the arms stockpiles reduced ...

In addition to the 50 million liberated in Iraq and Afghanistan ... and facilitating the ONLY comprehensive weapons inspection of Iraq, assuring if nothing else that the nation no longer had WMD stockpiles ...

... I add the hundreds of millions liberated, the fall of several totalitarian regimes, the end of 24/7 High Alert, and the REAL reductions in nuclear-arms stockpiles facilitated by the confrontational approach taken by President Reagan against the Soviet Union and its satellites ... "cowboy diplomacy" that the Best and Brightest dim bulbs like yourself derided, in much the same terms as you are deriding our current President.

What has your "realism" ... or your Leftist idealism ... done to liberate people? ACTUALLY ... as opposed to intent ... reduced arms stockpiles, or international tensions.

The best you critics could do, was maintain the status quo ... which was actually regressive in terms of death and destruction, for it was the maintenance of the status quo with AQ in Afghanistan that led to 911.

So now, run away -- smugly self-assured in your enlightened righteousness, when in fact you were just straining gnats ... while continuing to swallow camels of death and misery whole.

Deal with my points like a Man ... instead of fouling this patch of cyberspace with your parrot droppings.