Time to Move Out and Draw Fire! - The Battle Over the War Narrative

Posted By Blackfive

*radio static cuts out*

ATTENTION ON THE NET, This is Blackfive.

GUIDONS! GUIDONS!  GUIDONS!

Notice the uptick in troll activity?  Well, that's just the beginning.  MoveOn and George Soros and VoteVets and CodePink and the cast of lunatic fringe elements are all trying to get ahead of the testimony from General Petraeus and paint the surge as a loss.

In order to join the fight, Uncle Jimbo and I should be joining up with Veterans for Freedom in Washington DC on September 17th and 18th.  And both of us should be at a MAF rally on September 11th here in Chicago.  Please consider joining us.

From Pete Hegseth of Veterans for Freedom, here's how you can counter the massive and well funded left wing campaign against Victory.

In the past two weeks, Vets for Freedom has released television advertisements in 5 states (read about them here  & here) and stood up State Chapters in 26 states. We plan to release 5 more TV ads this week, and formally announce 5 additional State Chapters. And every day, our membership numbers expand rapidly.

Without question, we are on the offensive throughout America - communicating to members of Congress and the American people a very clear message: give General Petraeus, and his counter-insurgency strategy, the time, troops, and resources necessary to succeed in Iraq.

But rest assured, Washington DC-based, anti-war radicals are also active, and they plan to make their next political statement on Thursday, August 16th. According to a MoveOn.org strategy memo, they will "release a hard-hitting report to local media on what the war has cost your congressional district. This will happen on August 16th."

MoveOn.org will send out press releases in every congressional district stating how much the Iraq War is costing American taxpayers. But, of course, they fail to ask a more fundamental question: what is the cost of defeat in Iraq? And what will it ultimately cost America-in lives, treasure, and reputation-if we declare defeat at the hands of Al Qaeda & Company?...

Do you want to help?

Of course you do!  More information on what you can do after the Jump...

On Thursday, August 16th, as a direct response to MoveOn.org's crass attempts to politicize the Iraq War, Vets for Freedom  is asking all of its members to participate in our "Cost of Defeat" Call-in Campaign.

And we are not alone in this effort. We are proud to be partnering with Families United for the Troops and Their Mission, a grassroots coalition of thousands of Gold Star and Blue Star families including some with loved ones currently in harm's way. Both the troops-and their families-will be making calls this Thursday!

So mark your calendar and call your members of Congress to explain the "Cost of Defeat" in Iraq. Tell them that defeat in Iraq would mean the following things:

• A bloodbath in Iraq, costing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives and possibly destabilize the entire Middle East region.
• A failed state in Iraq and a safe haven for Al Qaeda to plan future attacks against America and her allies.
• An emboldened Iran in pursuit of nuclear weapons and a victorious Al Qaeda in pursuit of new ways to kill Americans at home and around the world.

For more tips and information about what to say when you call, please read the "Call Tips" section at the end of this email. We have provided a word-for-word script.

Call Instructions:

1. On Thursday, call your 2 Senators and 1 Representative. Call their offices in your home state and remind them of the "Cost of Defeat" in Iraq. Use the links below to find the phone numbers for your members of Congress:

Contacting your U.S. Senators
Contacting your U.S. Representatives

2. After you have called your members of Congress, call the following 10 Senators  and remind them what the "Cost of Defeat" would look like if they vote to undercut General Petraeus and the mission in Iraq in September. Phone numbers are provided below for phone numbers in their home state:

Senator Chuck Grassley R - Iowa 515-288-1145
Senator Sam Brownback R - Kansas 785-233-2503
Senator Pat Roberts R - Kansas 785-295-2745
Senator Ben Nelson D - Nebraska 402-391-3411
Senator Mitch McConnell R - Kentucky 502-582-6304
Senator Norm Coleman R - Minnesota 651-645-0323
Senator John Sununu R - New Hampshire 603-647-7500
Senator Judd Gregg R - New Hampshire 603-622-7979
Senator John Warner R - Virginia 540-857-2676
Senator Mark Pryor D - Arkansas 501-324-6336

When you're done with the calls on Thursday, please shoot a quick email to info@vetsforfreedom.org  and let us know. And if you had any particularly interesting exchanges, we'd love to hear about it.

Call Tips

When you call the senators, a few important things to remember:

   

* Always be courteous. The person answering the phone is likely a young staffer.

    * If you are calling a Senator who represents your home state, say "I am from [City, State] and am a member of Vets for Freedom. I recently returned from Iraq [or insert relevant experience] and I respectfully request to speak with Senator [name]." When they ask to take a message, say "I'm calling to tell Senator [name] that I oppose MoveOn.org's attempts to undermine the mission in Iraq and to remind the Senator what the "cost of defeat" in Iraq would be. Defeat in Iraq would mean [cite three reasons above]... Please pass along this message to the Senator."

    * If you are calling a Senator who is not from your state, say "I am a veteran of the Iraq War [or insert relevant experience] who served with [insert unit] in [insert location] from [insert dates]. I am a member of Vets for Freedom and I'm calling to tell Senator [name] that I oppose MoveOn.org's attempts to undermine the mission in Iraq and to remind the Senator what the "cost of defeat" in Iraq would be. Defeat in Iraq would mean [cite three reasons above]... Please pass along this message to the Senator."

What Else Can You Do This Week?

1.  Attend Your Senator's Town Hall Meetings. We need pro-mission veterans and citizens at every single town hall meeting in August, encouraging members of Congress to support the mission in Iraq. If you find out about a Town Hall meeting in your state, do two things: 1) Attend! 2) Let us know at joel@vetsforfreedom.org.

2. Sign Up to Show Up in September. We still need more veterans to sign up early and join us on September 17 & 18 at our nation's capitol. Just send an email to events@vetsforfreedom.org with your name, military bio, your home state, and contact information. Once we receive this information we can start the process of arranging your travel and scheduling your appointments in Washington, DC.

3. Visit our "Live From Iraq" Blog. Check daily for updates from Jeff Emanuel, Iraq war veteran and Vets for Freedom member, who is reporting from the front lines in Iraq. He will provide daily "on the ground" updates from inside the surge.

Our comrades in Iraq have Al Qaeda on the run-and it's up to us to keep radical anti-war groups on the defensive for their ill-informed and partisan viewpoints.

Move out and draw fire!

Regards,

Pete Hegseth
Iraq War Veteran 2005-2006
Executive Director, Vets for Freedom

Thank you very, very much.

Blackfive, Out.

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Comments

[Rich Casebolt]

In addition to stating the facts noted above, I will be asking my Congressional contingent ... which includes the Dem frontrunner for the 2008 Presidential election ... the following:

If just a few dozen guys could pull off 911 ... how does it make sense to allow others who shared their hatred to have absolute control of an entire nation ... in 2003, or now?

I encourage others to do the same ... and if you get a coherent answer, I'd love to hear about it.

[odanny]

http://www.votevets.org

http://www.iava.org

Support your veterans organizations, refuse to send more troops as cannon fooder for the neocons war of conquest.

Wake up, think for yourself, speak with a majority of Americans. Don't be cowed into submission any longer.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Hey, odanny, shove it up your kester.

[Devil Dog Dad]

Hey, odanny, shove it up your kester.

[Rich Casebolt]

I see that "5 O'Clock Danny" has shown up ... like his Korean-era namesake "5 O'Clock Charlie" ... to take on the wrong target.

Last March 17, blogger and OIF veteran SMASH showed just what a hollow shell IAVA is.

Once the weather stripped away the fashion sheep, whose support of your agenda is a mile wide and an inch deep (is that your "majority" you keep squaking about?) your moonbat militias were outnumbered about three-to-one by many of the same people who plan to be in Washington on 17 September, as Matt noted above.

And, VoteVets spokesman John Soltz has showed us their true colors recently, both at YearlyKos and in interviews.

He sounds a lot like you ... a mouth a mile wide, an intellect an inch deep.

We ARE thinking for ourselves, odanny.

That is why we do not parrot talking points.

Prove that your intellect is deeper than 1" ... answer my question above, without invoking the terms "illegal war" and "lie", or their synonyms.

For if what I am asking makes sense ...

... WMD doesn't matter ...
... ties to Al Quada don't matter.

Only a demonstrated aspiration for totalitarian expansion through terrorizing our civilization, being enabled by those in absolute control of a nation, matters.

That is why this is called a War on Terror.

That is why it was right to invade Afghanistan ... they were ignored until 911, because we didn't see their capabilities and will.

That is why it was right to invade Iraq ... for Saddam's will and capabilities were far more clear, even if he did not have WMD stockpiles.

That is why it is right to confront Iran ... and if necessary, invade it to rip it away from the monsters who got it through our INACTION, and give it back to her good people ... just as we are doing in Iraq.

If you are going to come back here, get used to me being in your face on this ... for I do not suffer parrots well.

Danny wanna cracker?

[Rich Casebolt]

Excuse me ... as 5 O'Clock Danny might say, I "mispoke".

I confused the IAVA ... which still has some wrongheaded ideas regarding what it means to support our Men and Women, mixed in with some good ideas (at least on the surface) regarding logistical and medical support ... with the Iraq Veterans Against the War, or IVAW, who was the hollow shell on 17 March 2007.

I regret unduly denigrating the IAVA ... however, my statements regarding the hollow shell of support for 5:00's agenda still stand, corroborated.

odanny ... I'm waiting for that answer to my question ... do I need to check back around 1700 tomorrow?

[odanny]

......."I confused the IAVA ... which still has some wrongheaded ideas regarding what it means to support our Men and Women, mixed in with some good ideas (at least on the surface) regarding logistical and medical support ... with the Iraq Veterans Against the War, or IVAW, who was the hollow shell on 17 March 2007."........

You confuse alot of things Rich. In fact, from what I've read thus far of you, you confuse almost everything.

[Caper2]

odanny:

Brilliant response. I am sure that the majority of the lackeys and others tools are going to be overwhelmed by your superior intellect and ability for debate.

...NOT

But let's speak of more important stuff. Were you able to finish summer school this time or are you going to had to repeat the year again?

[malclave]

"think for yourself, speak with a majority of Americans."

Orwellian doublethink at its purest.

[odanny]

..........."But let's speak of more important stuff. Were you able to finish summer school this time or are you going to had to repeat the year again?"...........

"Am I going to 'had' to repeat" you ask?

I understand, you rode the short bus and licked the windows, but look at you now! Congratulations on coming so far. Your English may even catch up someday.

[Rich Casebolt]

You confuse alot of things Rich. In fact, from what I've read thus far of you, you confuse almost everything.

You get that impression, only because you yourself don't know how to follow logical aruguments ...

... and that is because you borrow the sound bites of others and try to pass those off as original thinking, even when your arguments have been shredded like wet tissue paper well before you knew when 5:00 was.

In other words, you are a shallow thinker ... mired in a conventional wisdom that makes you feel not only good, but leads you to consider yourself better than the rest of humanity ... a conventional wisdom that is berefit of true wisdom, and will lead to your death or enslavement if you persuade this nation to follow it to its logical conclusions.

Prove me wrong ... answer my question, if you can make a logical argument regarding the question, as opposed to bloviations about illegality and lies.

However ...

... do so with the understanding that the primary function of our government, from the moment of its founding, is to secure our inalenable rights ... primarily, our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

In this day and age, those characteristics depend upon activities that go outside our borders, into other nations who have chosen to peacefully interact with us.

Our economic health depends upon the fostering of such peaceful interactions ... as does our national security, for the opportunities for such interaction are a powerful deterrent to war between nations, and the economic benefits allow us to more thoroughly provide for our common defense.

The enemy we are currently fighting against seeks to expand their totalitarian rule over as much of this world as they can ... and they know that the exercise of our rights now reaches beyond their borders and poisons the ground they intend to conquer, immunizing it against their conquest.

They aren't interested in fighting for freedom, which would give your arguments about "blowback" credence if they were interested in preserving the rights of their people (as we are). They are interested ONLY in subjugation of people to their rule.

They also know that, since we are already "over there" in myriad nations in peaceful interaction, they can inflict serious damage upon us without coming here.

And they did so ... in Kuwait, at Khobar Towers, in our Nigerian and Tanzanian embassies, on board a ship of our Navy which was acting in peace at that time.

They also did so in places like Lebanon, Palestine, and Egypt ... turning other places where peaceful interaction could flourish, into staging bases for more death and destruction.

Therefore, if our government is to live up to its duty to secure our inalienable rights, its actions must by necessity reach beyond our borders ...

... and if we are to be morally consistent as well as strategically prudent we need to remember that those rights are not only the property of Americans on American soil ... they are the posession of ALL PEOPLE ... and it is in our legitimate interest, in order to secure our own rights, to defend them with and/or for others where necessary!

Who hit who first ... or who has what weapons ... does not matter, once it is evident that an adversary is willing to act to rip those inalienable rights away from you, or those you interact with.

The consideration of those details of timing and weaponry are the fruit of the conventional wisdom of the 20th Century ... which led us to believe that, if we submitted ourselves and our nations to enough rules and regulations, we wouldn't have to make moral choices or judgement calls to protect ourselves ... that it would be incontrovertibly clear, what needed to be done.

That conventional wisdom failed to take into account how an enemy could not only leverage modern technology to kill far out of proportion to their numbers ...

... or how interaction in our civilization is both highly vulnerable to terrorist attack, and cannot be defended adequately by passive/reactive defense measures if such interaction is to remain free and beneficial to the civilization ...

... and it failed to take into account how the good faith behind that conventional wisdom could be exploited to advantage by those who wish to subjugate you to their total control.

On 11 September 2001, that conventional wisdom was exposed as inadequate to secure life and liberty ... so in order to exercise its proper role in securing those rights, our government had to change its criteria for threat assessment ... not out of greed or arrogance, but out of a prudence and wisdom that correctly and accurately judged where the threats were coming from ... and that they were not limited to those directly involved in 911, nor were they limited to having bunkers full of WMD with a "Saddam & Sons" trademark on them.

Unfortunately, some people have not learned those lessons ... and persist in insisting that we apply the last century's conventional wisdom to this century's challenges, even though it has been weighted and found seriously wanting.

And, our government has made the error of trying to placiate your concerns, instead of standing on the fundamental moral judgments that justify our presence in Afghanistan and Iraq today ... in particular, placiating the likes of you by placing too much emphasis on the presence of WMD stockpiles in Iraq as the primary justification for this war.

You, Five O'Clock Danny, are one of those dullards.

Read my lips, odanny ... The actions Saddam Huessin directed that jeapordized life and liberty of his own people, his immediate neighbors, ... and, both by extension and directly, in 1991, 1993, and the years of the no-fly zones, even America ... justified his removal at our hands -- WMD or no WMD -- UN or no UN -- Al Quada or no Al Quada -- BECAUSE THOSE ACTIONS THREATENED LIFE AND LIBERTY, AND IT IS THE PURVIEW OF LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT TO STOP SUCH ACTIONS AND SECURE LIFE AND LIBERTY!.

Don't blow off my question ... read all that I wrote above, and deal with it like a man of intelligence and wisdom does ... not with conspiracy theories, arrogance, and class envy, but by evaluating the question from a basis of sound principle, applying intelligence and wisdom in the light of those principles.

Or, are we down to just ... Danny wanna cracker?

[Fight4TheRight]

odanny...

Your comments, well, they intrigued me. You seem to have such a handle on things so I decided to check out what would have to be a tremendous compiling of thought at your blog. So, yes, I went to your blog at:

http://blowing-up-disinformation.blogspot.com/

Now THAT odanny, is quite impressive! LMFAO. If you need some help on actually adding your first post to that blogsite, odanny, give me a holler.

Good thing BLACKFIVE actually has a blog up and running huh odanny or you'd be sitting there with your etch-a-sketch.

[odanny]

........."Good thing BLACKFIVE actually has a blog up and running huh odanny or you'd be sitting there with your etch-a-sketch.".......

Ha Ha Ha Ha! You crack me up!

[Gary]

I have yet to see odanny actually answer the questions of Anyone posting here.

Ban!

[Rich Casebolt]

Answer my question, odanny ...

... or eat your cracker, parrot.

[Ymarsakar]

Support your veterans organizations, refuse to send more troops as cannon fooder for the neocons war of conquest.

If we send od as cannon fodder for our wars, would that be more okay?

We must show compassion. Conservative compassion.

[couch1971]

odanny is the poster child and prime example of why stupid people shouldn't breed.

[Fenris]

Okay people, yes, it's pretty clear that odanny isn't strong in the area of formulating a cogent thought. We get it.

I submit, however, that he'd post less if you halfwits with the knee-jerk I Must Say Something Syndrome would stop responding directly to him.

[tree hugging sister]

"You confuse alot of things Rich. In fact, from what I've read thus far of you, you confuse almost everything."

I got it, I got it, I got it! Pee Wee Danny's Big Adventure:

"I know you are, but what am I?"

A vicious, merciless riposte.

[twolaneflash]

Only son, FastLaneFlash, is home on his 18 day leave from Combat Outpost Viking in Fallujah. He brings computer with several hundred gigs of photos and video of victory, not cheaply bought, and honorably won. We have toasted the fallen, remembered the standing, and strengthened our warrior. We return him to war in a few days to the benefit of odanny and those he loves, as well as those he hates. God be thanked for such an American who calls my house home.

[Rich Casebolt]

twolaneflash ... thank you, and that Man who is your son, for what you do on my behalf.

**********

fenris ... I respond to Five O'Clock Danny for several reasons.

> First, because I don't want to see his droppings -- the antiwar talking points that are the real "faulty intel" of the GWOT -- remain unopposed in this space. Otherwise, someone else who reads them, in the absence of a rebuttal that goes beyond "you're an idiot", might mistakenly adopt them as the truth.

> Second, because these are opportunities we see here around 1700 every day, for education and positive reinforcement. odanny and his ilk portray themselves as intellectually superior to their opponents ... and have done a good job of selling that perception for years, to the point that they can pass off their gnat-straining of statistics and appeals to authority as principled analysis, having discouraged those with dissenting views from challenging their assertions.

When someone like myself takes the debate beyond the surface appearances above, and actually starts discussing the underlying principles behind the arguments, the inadequacy of the positions of these self-proclaimed "Best and Brightest" is exposed ...

... and everyone ends up better informed for their own decision-making, and more confident that they themselves are wise enough to positively affect the debates of our day.

3> There have been others ... like a gentleman by the name Mr. Sparkle ... who disagree with my position, but exhibit intellectual honesty in their communication. I can respect them ... and will engage them 'till the cows come home.

Parrots, however, like odanny and the departed-but-unlamented Lord HaWW HaWW, who ignore factual challenges to their statements by simply repeating the same talking points ad nauseum, deserve active denigration on these pages ... as they are the Big Liars of our age.

In a more genteel time, such Big Liars framed the debate without serious challenge, saw their views implemented as policy ... and where that has happened, our nation has endured significant harm that, in some cases lingers to this day ... as in, having to fight wars that would have been avoided by our leaders acting with principled RESOLVE in 1979 and/or 1991.

When I am asked, by one of the Blackfive authors, to stand down, I will ... and I have done so on some threads in the past. I also try to avoid engaging parrots in "memorial" threads ... and instead defer to the authors to clean up the messes.

But until then, I will be in odanny's beak, er, face.

[Ymarsakar]

Shorter active denigration perhaps.

[Rich Casebolt]

Point well taken, ymar, you punk college kid.

[odanny]

......."Okay people, yes, it's pretty clear that odanny isn't strong in the area of formulating a cogent thought. We get it.

I submit, however, that he'd post less if you halfwits with the knee-jerk I Must Say Something Syndrome would stop responding directly to him."..........

Good idea. For those residing in the reality based community, you know eactly what I'm talking about and, even though you are a minority of opinion here, you dont need to reply. For those not in the reality based community, or for those who are just woefully misinformed, then just read and consider my opinions (which reflect a majority of Americans thoughts) while the rest of you demonize thinking Americans and continue to shriek for more war.

Fascism is a growing menace and many here are the "tip of the spear", no doubt.

And for those who suffer from an irrational and xenophobic thought process that is further enflamed from watching FOX Noise, the it helps you to be exposed tro the truth, even if it is painful for you.

I thank the site owner for allowing me the freedom of speech to state my opinion. That, at least, is truly American of you and supports the very ideals this country was founded on.

God Bless America.

[loyalamerican]

wow....how can you people really be this ignorant? Are you seriously scared that radical Islamics are going to overtake the country? Now that we're aware of the threat, and now that we're actually taking the threat seriously, how many attacks have we had since 9/11? Don't forget, we should be doing way more to stop the threat, but right now we're wasting valuable men and money on a meaningless "War on Terrorism". If we devoted all of our powerful resources to securing OUR country, just think how safe we'd be. Right now we inspect less than 1% of cargo containers being exported to the US, and we don't have near enough people guarding the border, trying to keep out illegal immigrants, as well as potential terrorists. I can't believe you big, bad ass Vets are scared of these people. I admit, we got caught with our pants down on 9/11, but I think we've learned our lesson, and as long as we stay proactive in protecting OUR country, the threat from Radical Islamics is minimal at best. I feel sorry for you people that you're actually scared of these people. I know I'm not....

[Subsunk]

My calls made, my duty partially fulfilled. All the Texas reps had heard of the calls and knew of MoveOn's nefarious intentions. It did not appear to them that there was a huge response from our side today, but there was enough that they were aware of the issue.

For those not in the reality based community, or for those who are just woefully misinformed, then just read and consider my opinions (which reflect a majority of Americans thoughts) while the rest of you demonize thinking Americans and continue to shriek for more war.

Fascism is a growing menace and many here are the "tip of the spear", no doubt.

And for those who suffer from an irrational and xenophobic thought process that is further enflamed from watching FOX Noise, the it helps you to be exposed tro the truth, even if it is painful for you.

--odanny

Interesting that fascism is the bogeyman you fear to the point that you must place yourself opposite those who know what fascism truly is because we have opposed it since our oaths were spoken. We recognize it begins with a silencing of our opinions by those who disagree vehemently with us and insist that their way out of Iraq is the only one true path. That we are nothing more than "unrealistic" instead of idealistic, and we are "woefully misinformed" instead of permanently and extremely knowledgable of those who would seize power at all costs, just as the fascists, Communists, socialists, and Oriental fanatics, and now, Muslim terrorists seek to do to increase their own power.

Just as Dhimmicrats and "realists" who advocate that an Evil as profound as any seen in our history be allowed to nurture, to grow, to attack, to poison, to fester in our societies, to kill our children with bombs, to sow discontent and lies in our gullible public, and to imagine that their ideology is superior enough to others' that it must be supreme by wiping out all vestige of opposition thought and action because it is "RIGHT" and "Progressive". That it is an ideology so cowardly that it must kill or silence its opposition because it cannot actually persuade nonbelievers of its correctness without resorting to intimidation, forced conversion, thuggery, and the sword and the knife. That because we here on this website oppose its plans, we are demonizing thinking Americans (And where is your evidence that you actually think for yourself? Where is your logic in winning by running away from the battelfield?) and continuing to "shriek for more war" instead of merely insisting that we win the one we are involved in and dissenting from the point of view that all American use of force is illegal and immoral, even when used to save innocents who cry out for our protection.

When you say "for those who suffer from an irrational and xenophobic thought process that is further enflamed from watching FOX Noise, the[n] it helps you to be exposed tro [sic] the truth, even if it is painful for you", do you recognize how irrational and xenophobic your own thought process is by assuming that only your point of view is valid? That those who have been exposed to injustice and fascism directly by contact overseas, who recognize what True Evil is by the actions it takes and the consequences of its decisions to eliminate the free press instead of merely usurp it for one political party's aims, use the oppression of the native populations by secret and thuggish police forces (which actually are nonexistent or benign and toothless in America), and the seizing of personal property for the state's aims as is advocated by the Dhimmicratic party in its tax and spend policies to further their own power at the expense of ordinary citizens. Just like Dhimmicrats and MoveOn demand now.

Silence Rush Limbaugh (whom I do not listen to), silence Fox News, attack their advertisers through intimidation and thuggery and association of their companies with racism and illegal activity, albeit without evidence of any real wrongdoing. Silence the free exchange of ideas which you don't agree with. Denigrate the members of the Armed Forces so they will not speak out and contradict the lies which fall out of your mouth with such oily ease and shiny distraction, and thus expose your Dhimmicratic and MoveOn talking points for the lies that they are. Use the power of the press to eliminate all opposing voices by filling newsrooms with over 95% of one viewpoint and insist that the editors toe the liberal party line in their headlines and story selection so the masses remain uneducated and uninformed. So the "reality based community" may cover itself with that educated sounding name without questioning why they deem themselves to be the only ones living in reality.

And yet, almost a million Men and Women have seen Iraq firsthand now. Have come face to face with the Evil that is al Qaeda, Talibanization, and radical Muslim/Wahhabi thought.

And we find those ideologies wanting in morality, wanting in Truth, and wanting in meeting the requirements of normal human decency and compassion. And we oppose them vehemently. If need be, with our last breath.

Your "opinions" (which you say reflect a majority of Americans thoughts without evidence to support such a statement) are duly noted with disdain. And rejected as misleading, unrealistic, totally immoral, and lacking in the most basic honesty and integrity needed to be considered for proper action.

Abandon our mission, we will not. Admit Defeat, we will not. Allow al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents, or Shiite madmen to prevail and tyrannize the entire Muslim world to our detriment, we will not.

Go find your own hole, crawl into it, and await the efforts of better Men and Women than yourself to eliminate the threat to civilization posed by radical Islam while you can only wish you had the guts to actually oppose Evil instead of assist it.

Clear enough, boy? Why don't you back on out of here before "the tip of the spear" pokes you in the ass.

Press on, to Victory.

Subsunk

[odanny]

....."And yet, almost a million Men and Women have seen Iraq firsthand now. Have come face to face with the Evil that is al Qaeda, Talibanization, and radical Muslim/Wahhabi thought."...........

Yes, of course, it is the United States perogative to invade, occupy, and attemnpt to subjugate thru force and armed aggression a nation that never attacked us. And now is crawling with terrorists because our idiot President and his scheming handlers decided it was time to invade it and used the deaths of almost 3000 Americans as his justification.
Some, like yourself, likely need nor desire any sober rationalization of how the country was lied into this mess, you only need the politics of fear to make you press on. You hate any and all that are different than you. Sadly, you represent the very worst this country has to offer with your backwards ignorance and propensity for violence to remove any "threat", which usually is anyone who thinks differently than you. To the worlds regret we have a Commander in Chief just as foolish as those like yourself.

You guarantee further terrorism as a result.

............"And we find those ideologies wanting in morality, wanting in Truth, and wanting in meeting the requirements of normal human decency and compassion. And we oppose them vehemently. If need be, with our last breath"...........

As do I. Freedom, Liberty, and Justice for All will be defended from Fascists.

Enough said.

[odanny]

.........."I admit, we got caught with our pants down on 9/11, but I think we've learned our lesson, and as long as we stay proactive in protecting OUR country, the threat from Radical Islamics is minimal at best"............

The real threat since 9/11 has always been an internal threat. Terrorism has been used to cow the sheeple into submission while the theft of our Treasury and our own manufactured wars of aggression continue to make defense contractors rich from the blood of our soldiers.

It's one huge crime.

[DNS]

I'm not sure I understand this stuff, but can someone tell me how George Soros is a threat?

[Rich Casebolt]

Again, the the ignorance of the parrot is exposed:

Sadly, you represent the very worst this country has to offer with your backwards ignorance and propensity for violence to remove any "threat", which usually is anyone who thinks differently than you.

I guess you don't know that Subsunk served as a senior officer on both SSBN's and SSN's. That means that he was entrusted with the control of nuclear weapons, as well as anti-ship conventional ordance.

Since SSBN's and SSN's spend months on patrol in isolation, he had plenty of opportunity, if he and a few others of like mind had been so inclined, to express their "propensity for violence" by sinking some of those "different people" in the Red Navy subs they were always tracking ... and might even have gotten away with it ...

... or, they could have expressed themselves by hacking the safeties (ANY security measure can be broken with enough time), turning the keys, and unleashing nuclear Hell upon those "firiners" by Trident and/or Tomahawk ... then slinking away as their command-and-control apparatus busied itself with more pressing concerns like fires and fallout.

He and his shipmates, instead, honored the trust we gave them, by NOT doing what I described above, but instead acting with reason and self-control AT ALL TIMES, even when subjected to the risk of a cat-and-mouse game with their Russian equivalents several hundred feet below the surface.

And you have the unmitigated GALL to come in here and denigrate him as an uncontrolled brute!

Instead of revealing your shallow thought even more ... why don't you stand up and defend your disdain for what we have done in Iraq, by answering this question WITHOUT hiding behind the tissue-paper boilerplate you have put up until now:

If just a few dozen guys could pull off 911 ... how does it make sense to allow others who shared their hatred to have absolute control of an entire nation ... in 2003, or now?

If you have a better answer than the Men and Women entrusted with defending this Nation, past and present ... justify it instead of parotting your talking points.

I have 2996 reasons -- 2996 REAL lives, snuffed out because we listened to the Big Lies you (and George Soros and his ilk ... that is why they are a threat, DNS) spew for too long -- to justify their decision, as you allude to above.

How many reasons ... how many REAL lives, not just hypotheticals in a conspiracy theory ... can you point to that have had their civil liberties stolen?

Or should I just say ... danny wanna craker?

[Rich Casebolt]

If we devoted all of our powerful resources to securing OUR country, just think how safe we'd be. Right now we inspect less than 1% of cargo containers being exported to the US, and we don't have near enough people guarding the border, trying to keep out illegal immigrants, as well as potential terrorists.

Now, here is a real, constructive dissenting viewpoint. Take notes, odanny.

Don't get me wrong, loyalamerican ... the measures you cite, to the extent that they are practical to implement in a society that depends upon freedom of movement to operate, are part of the solution.

However, here is a lesson on what you get when you limit our defense to only passive/reactive measures like these, always staying within our own borders:

"Maginot Line"

Google it.

There is a reason we have not been attacked since 911: the would-be attackers, instead of being left alone in safe havens like Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and the Iraq of Saddam & Sons to plan and plot, now have to continually look over their shoulders, while their command-and-control capabilities have been systematically reduced to the equivalent of carrier pigeons and tin cans with string.

They are the ones on the defensive ... thanks to that "meaningless War on Terror" that is bringing the fight into the heart of their support, busting up the terror apparatus ... and showing both the wannabes and the intimidated in their midst that there is another way besides jihad to live, which also leads the jihadists to consider their homelands ... and not ours ... as the central front in this war.

loyalamerican, you question the need to "fear" radical Islam ... while having much confidence in our ability to maintain a proactive response. As I see it ...

First, true and effective proactivity means defeating the enemy in his homeland, before he has a chance to strike here.

Second, as you can see, we have those like Five O'Clock Danny ... joined by many in positions of power and influence ... working to persuade us to drop our proactive stance and return to the conventional wisdom of the last century, also known as the 10 September 2001 mindset. If they are allowed to frame the national debate, I question our ability to maintain a proactive stance.

Third, history shows us that leaving thugs like these alone just leads to a greater war later. In just seven years, in a far less technically-advanced age, Germany went from broken-down to blitzkreig. Leaving the Taliban and Al Quada alone -- even though we knew the objectives they were striving for in general -- gave them the breathing space they needed for those few dozen guys to pull off 911.

When you get right down to it, though ... I don't so much fear a takeover of America by radical Islam, as I fear that the apathy encouraged by the Big Liars like odanny will stay our hand ... until, backs against the wall, we are faced with the choices of:

> a retreat from global civilization ... leaving our friends to the tender mercies of the jihadists ... and their nations to be leveraged, to eventually bring the fight directly to our shores as an all-out, nation-on-nation World War.

> Starting that World War before they get here ... but not with precision-guided weapons and counterinsurgency tactics that don't grind the innocent to powder, but instead being compelled to scorch the earth of the MidEast with neutron fluence as the jihadists try to do the same to America ... and watch the death toll leave the butcher's bill of Iraq and Afghanistan in the dust, by its magnitude.

We don't have to make that choice ... if we exercise wisdom, and act decisively now to confront and defeat the jihadists.

[Ymarsakar]

Fascism is a growing menace and many here are the "tip of the spear", no doubt.

You are the spear, don't worry about the tip. Your job is to make sure that if anybody pulls you out, that you take half a lung with you.

The real threat since 9/11 has always been an internal threat.

This is what I've been saying. People really shouldn't incriminate themselves like this.

[Subsunk]

The real threat since 9/11 has always been an internal threat. Terrorism has been used to cow the sheeple into submission while the theft of our Treasury and our own manufactured wars of aggression continue to make defense contractors rich from the blood of our soldiers.

It's one huge crime.

Posted by: odanny | August 16, 2007 at 08:57 PM

Man, that Halliburton and KBR must be the richest companies in the world today for all the warmongering they do. They must have BILLIONS soaked away somewhere. Somewhere, right?

So how come Walmart and Exxon are the ones with the big profits? Oh, Exxon gets it from threatening the world's oil supply you say? Why raise the price of the commodity you have to buy to make your money? Isn't it supposed to be buy low sell high? Not buy high, sell high? And Congress, like clockwork EVERY YEAR, launches hearings into why gas is so expensive when kids go back to school and oil refineries have to change the blends to add oxygen to gasoline at the same time every year, and hurricane season is upon us, so evacuations and disruptions by those evil oil companies evacuating their evil employees from the Gulf when a storm goes by make the oil and gas supply go down and the price of gasoline goes up, oddly enough by about the same amount the price of oil goes up. And yet, the oil companies are the Evil ones, instead of nimrods like you who waste time investigating the crimes that haven't been committed here. I suppose those oil company employees should take the $20/hr that they get roughnecking for 12-16 hrs a day for a two or three week stretch and just stick it out when the sotrms blow the oil rigs into the sea. They make so much money and in such an evil and dishonest way that they should have to stay and risk their lives when hurricanes go by so you can have gasoline to go to Starbucks.

Any stupider than you at home? The Spartans would have left them to die at birth. How did you slip through?

You ever met someone who works for KBR? You ever met someone who works for Exxon? They seem rich to you? Or is it just a job like all jobs? Providing a commodity or service which has to be done, and for which I would rather pay one of my neighbors who lives here with me, instead of a Chinese or French company who actually hates me and thinks THEY should get rich cheating the American government out of funds.

Your own fearmongering and playing to the "less educated masses" is comical. If you had ever left your bedroom and spent some time overseas you might know something about who is unethical, who is tyrannous, who is a thug..... and whom you should trust to do the moral and correct thing. It isn't anyone with a (D) or an (R) after their name just because they have a D or R affiliation. It is someone who puts their money where their mouth is. A politician who does the right thing no matter how unpopular it is and does it even though it won't bring him any votes. A General who hears his own words twisted by Dhimmicrats to make it seem like he abandons both the troops and the mission or is disloyal to the leadership of the country which it is his JOB to follow. It is a young American Man or Woman with an M-16 in one hand, and a soccer ball or candy in the other. Because they came from the same system which raised you up out of the slime and made you care about something more than yourself. You just happen to care more about terrorists, thugs, and people who hate you more than you care about your own neighbors, friends and defenders. You wish for the sucess of your enemies instead of your neighbors because your neighbors are Christian, or lees intelligent, or somehow warmongering and money grubbing and therefore unworthy of the same protection you would give radical Islamists. Because we all know how much evil is done in the name of Christ don't we? You just can't find any Muslims in your backyard, so you blame Christians or military folks, or Rethuglicans instead because they are all over your town.

Sorry I dignify your answers with a response. I just like toying with Stupidity before it runs off and gets itself killed for being stupid. I enjoy tormenting you that way. I like the way the spit gets all over your monitor and your keyboard when you exhibit all that false outrage.

Have a nice day, nimrod. Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out.

Subsunk

[Subsunk]

I'm not sure I understand this stuff, but can someone tell me how George Soros is a threat?

Posted by: DNS | August 16, 2007 at 09:09 PM

You're right. You don't understand this stuff.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Subsunk