Bleu Beau: Astroturfing? And Let The Pushback Begin

Posted By Laughing_Wolf

Right now, there really isn't much more to say about this POS than has been said. Two points to think about this morning are as follows:

1. Was this another astroturf effort? You know, a "grassroots" thing that is anything but grassroots? This story truly does make one wonder a bit about that possibility, as in the real reasons for volunteering?

2. The chickenhawk meme is in full force, and here at Chickenhawk Manor a rather weak additional meme has predictably made it's appearance. That creature is the "wish them harm" meme, which is usually quite small and insubstantial, perhaps similar to the reason and intellect of those making it. Trust me, the people here rarely make threats. Promises, yes; threats, no. When such is made, there is no doubt it has been made. As Jimbo has already pointed out, Bleu Beau has royally spat and shat not just on all American forces, but on those around him in particular. Do you think anyone really likes having such flung on them? Do you think they are going to think it a great joke or an honor to go through what they are now going through? All because of someone who may have, er, mislead them as to why he joined, what he was doing, and why he was doing it? Yeah, he needs to check six. Telling someone like Bleu Beau that they need to be careful is not a threat: it is in no way saying that others should go beat him up, give him a blanket party, or frag him. It is a simple statement of fact because he has royally screwed the people who would otherwise have his back. It takes a great deal of, er, mental flexibility (the ability to twist concepts into rather elaborate oragami that bears no structural, spatial, or even temporal relationship to the source material) and even -- dare I say -- mendacity to somehow equate this into a threat. The fact is, had I done to my team mates here what he has done to his, I would be checking six too.

Hmmmm. Then again, everyone has a price. A good seven figure advance and I can come up with Tales from Chickenhawk Manor and spin some BS dish the dirt too. Make it a very good advance, as I may have to find the price of some others. Meantime, here is a tidbit for enticement: Matt really isn't what he seems. He doesn't drink, smoke, party, or do any of those other things. As for what he wears on his head as he capers around, well, cough up that advance and we'll see. Trust me, for the right advance it will be good.

Meantime, our posts on this subject can be found (in rough chronological order by author) here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.

I am going to have to publically disagree with Uncle Jimbo, t-shirt-babe-at-large, on one point. The mess at TNR was not unavoidable. They could easily have avoided it by following some basic standards of journalism. Once they did not do so, however, the need to call it for what it was became truly unavoidable.

Meantime, want to support some real journalism? Then go make a donation to Michael Yon, J.D. Johannes, Michael J. Totten, and -- most especially -- PMI. The more informational boots-on-the-ground, the harder it is to pull this type of [deleted by editor, remember I have that bar of soap] and the harder it is for the enemy to continue to win the information war.

LW

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Comments

[socialism_is_error]

Have to go with Jimbo on this one. Considering the context of the local mindset at TNR (got to get dirt, got to get dirt,...), one might say that something like this was inevitable.

[MICHAEL in MI]

Laughing_Wolf - I have to agree with Jimbo as well. It seems that you and GRIM are hung-up on granting some sort of benefit of the doubt of integrity to the Left and assume they are actually trying to participate in journalism. That is not their intention at all. They are participating in advocacy "journalism", which is closer to propaganda being passed off as fact in order to sway public opinion to their Leftist views more than anything else.

I wish those of you in the military and military community and milblog community would stop granting this benefit of the doubt and good intentions to the Left and start recognizing them for what they are: the enemy. We have been complaining about the piss poor PR of the military public relations people, but really, I am seeing the same lack of clarity about the intentions of the left here as well. When are you all going to understand that the Left is out to destroy the military any way they can? The left is participating in PsyOps and yet here many people in the military community are granting them decent motives. Stop it. The left is the enemy and has been for many years. We need to start treating them as such and start fighting back.

We have our own civil insurgency here in America which is being waged through this propaganda warfare by the Left. We need to stop granting them this "civil discourse" benefit and start treating them as domestic enemies. Just as John Kerry and the Winter Soldier Investigation and Jane Fonda and all the anti-war types back during the Vietnam era were domestic enemies, so too is the Left today.

Personally I believe Greyhawk has been doing a great job exposing the enemies on the domestic Left for the past few years now, especially exposing the "AstroTurf" campaigns.

The problem, as I see it, is that the military community believes they can conduct a domestic COIN strategy in the same way we are conducting our COIN strategy in Iraq: winning hearts and minds. That is not going to happen. The Left has no intention of changing their hearts and minds to understand this war effort. We should treat the Left with the same disdain and contempt as we treat John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and John Murtha.

The reason I come to this conclusion is because last year I spent a lot of time on MySpace forums and blogs "debating" with Leftists about the war effort. They disregarded every fact I presented and lately they also disregard the military blogs I refer them to by saying that you are all just propaganda arms for the Administration, by citing examples of military blogs which have shut down, because they were coming under scrutiny from the military leadership... Claiming that the leadership didn't want to hear negative things about the war, only good. And they all use the typical talking points spewed by the Democrats and Dhimmedia that "BUSH LIED!" and al Qaeda was not in Iraq prior to the invasion and Iraq was not a threat, etc etc ad naseum. So I stopped wasting my time with those pointless "debates" as they had no intention of acknowledging the facts I provided them.

So the way I see it is that the Left has no interest in understanding the facts on the ground and a "hearts and minds" effort is a waste of time with them. They are all Cindy Sheehan types who are so deep in their delusional mindset and ideology, that there is no reaching them.

[Davod]

Remember the Hawaian (sp) army Lt who decined to go to Iraq, and the saeman who started up the troops against the war down at Norfolk, and this latest twerp. What do they all hav in common. They all joined the military after we went into Iraq.

Being the conspiracy theorist that I am, I have to believe some of these people joined the military just to become a royal pain in the ass and a public relations embarassment to the military and the administration.

[Davod]

Sorry. I did not finish my post.

The final sentence is:

How many more of these twerps are salted throughout the USDOD. Those that are left could well be far more dangerous than being a pain in the rer.

[Soldier's Mom]

I will definitely made 3 donations next Thursday on payday -- can't be much but every little bit helps, right?

On another subject -- anyone besides me been reading any of this stuff on the Tillman case? The medical examiner who examined his body in Afghanistan tried to get help and was rebuffed -- seems to me that 3 bullet holes in the forehead in a tight pattern by an M16 from less than 10 yards away would warrant some more investigation, wouldn't you think?

[Soldier's Mom]

LW: As for wishing Beauchamp harm -- I don't -- I think he is seriously mentally ill -- but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have some sort of judicial punishment from the Army and then get the mental health help that he so seriously needs. Would you want to go in to battle with someone with that mentallity as your wingman? I sure wouldn't!

[Some Soldier's Mom]

just a note: "Soldier's Mom" is not this milblogger... and is not afiliated with me or my blog...

[Grimmy]

Soldier's Mom:

Just to make sure you understand the issue - AstroTurfs are those who joined the US military, during a time of war, expressly for the purpose of gaining veteran status in order to give credibility to their attacks against the US military specifically, and America in general.

Their objective is to spread dissatisfaction, insubordination, erode morale, separate the US citizens from supporting the US military and etc etc.

In short, their goal is to add to and increase the stress and danger for your soldier and all the others as they aid the enemy in achieving victory by helping to cause Americans to lose faith in the military.

There is nothing honest, honorable or worthy in what they do. Their goal is pure, plain and simple sedition and treason.

[JihadGene]

Meanwhile, somewhere in the Blue Ridge "Banjo-Ditch" Mountain Range...a location known as the Berchtesgaden (or Weasel's Nest) of Norf Korea....we find Great Reader, KIM Jong Il reflecting on American G.I.'s

KIM- Yoo knows General Wang, what I'm thinks ablout?

WANG- No, Great Reader Slir!...
(oh shit here he goes again)...hmm....No, Slir. No idea what jewels of brilliancy are held wiff-in your most glorious mind. Preeze open up can 'O worms for me, your Glateness!

KIM- Can do ee-zeee. Well, Tanks to Brack Five, I'm learn ablout this G.I., him named Sclott BlowChips, and someday's him wants to be a great writer/storyteller, or a guy who enable's peoples a place in line at the local soup kitchen (A Politician) ....so him's make up story of blood cwazed GI's making fun of, and ywelling at, battlefield casualties in DFAC.

WANG- What is a DFAC Slir?

KIM- Is same-same mess hall. DFAC is US Army acronym for Dudes Fryin A'nudder Chicken.

WANG- So's?

KIM- SO's, him have web-brogg...and filled wiff twisted writings...like GI decorating himself wiff kids skull...or...running over dogs wiff HummBwee, and not even harvesting the road kill for Korean Bar-B-Que! Then the liberal media picks up his dong-filled stories and runs it as a truth story in the ebbery day life of da American GI.

WANG- Man! That's sick, Great Reader!! That NUMBA TEN!!! What sort of GI would write or says such things for fame and fortune?!

KIM- Two words...

WANG- Two words what, Great Reader?

KIM- JOHN KLERRY.

WANG- Well I'll be swift-boated!

KIM- Swiff-Bloated, indeed.

[Soldier's Mom]

Some Soldier's Mom:

If I had seen your name previous to picking my name, I would have picked something else -- I'm the mom of an SF soldier and a former infantry soldier.

Sorry if anythng I said upset you -- surely don't mean to upset anyone!

Grimmy:

I do understand Astroturf but no one will clear the area so I can back over them 3 or 4 times with my Buick! Was just stating what I thought should happen to PVT Beaucrap since we all know that probably nothing will happen from the chain of command -- don't forget I work for a GO -- I'm a little disillusioned right now about senior officers taking responsibility or the lack thereof!

[liyak]

Drop the left for good!They are puppets.If they were all
alone,then, and only then,would the be right!

[warvet48]

LW:

I don't drink or smoke or party either, but that doesn't change my mind about Blowchamp. I mentioned an a$$ kicking, because 1. He deserves it (if everything is as we believe). and 2. in the old days that typically worked in straightening out some of the "not in line" troops.

This is a last resort. I'm not telling anyone to "get him" just reflecting on my thoughts.

I hope he is dealt with through the legal network with whatever charges are possible.

When my kids were little, if they got out of line they could get spanked. Same for this guy I guess.

TNR took this and ran with it because they smelled the dirt, and it was too easy. They should be held accountable (and to a degree are being held accountable by all of us).
I think they've shown their true color in this one. Definately attack the military! About as leftist as you can go.

[douglas]

On the astrotufing issue, we should wait and see. So far, I think wecan only conclude that he was at least motivated for reasons of self-promotion to join up and do this diarist thing. I haven't yet seen anything of this that shows a conspiracy, and I'm not sure he's the type to do conspiracy- too self centered.

We'll see eventually, I'm sure.

[Arch]

Two things - Astroturfing and reaction to false reporting.

Don't give John Kerry credit for being bright enough to have astroturfed - signed up for the navy during the Vietnam War to become a veteran with street cred. He joined the navy to get a commission rather than getting drafted into the army or marines as a private when he graduated from college. At the time, any politician would need a DD214 (honorable discharge) to run for a national office. Kerry's involvement in the Winter Soldier movement was, I think, an after thought when the public tired of the war.

About these false reports by unnamed military members. Private Scott Thomas Beauchamp should be the template for how we treat these attacks. When the story sounds like a lie, get on it immediately. If the media outlets are reluctant to divulge their source(s), pile on them. If they give up their source, challenge him to prove his claim or retract it. Make sure to blow him in to his chain of command. After a few of these sniveling pimps get six months confinement, six months forfeiture of pay and a bad conduct discharge, the media will have a serious recruiting problem.

Congratulations folks! I am so satisfied with the work all you milbloggers did on this twit, I'm going to open up a bottle of 12 year old Balvenie, pour myself one with a wee drop and take my greyhound, Wagstaff (aka "Wags the Dog") for a nice long walk.

.

[Laughing Wolf]

Jihad Gene: LOL! As always, a howl of approval from here. :)

Arch, thanks! Balvenie? Excellent choice. I'm fond of the single b single m they do... Please give Wagstaff a skritch for me.

Warvet, Soldiers' Mom, et. others: I am afraid I am confused. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I've said he was a POS, and a lying one at that IMO. In point of fact, I can't find anything that any of you should have been able to construe as not wanting him to own up/face up. WTF? I point out a very interesting angle, the idiocy of the left wing blogs, defend Jimbo, take a swipe at TNR and failure to adhere to basic principles of journalism, and that is a defense of Bleu? Get a grip. The second part had almost nothing to do with Bleu Beau, and everything to do with pointing out the idiocy of Cole et. al. who claim that we were inciting and advocating harm. And to answer one question, I sure as hell would not want him at my side or to have my back. No where in ANYTHING I've written could you find anything to come up with my indicating I would want to. That said, I am going to go with Grim and stop posting on Bleu Beau for a while to see what happens with the investigation(s) underway.

Michael in MI, I'm really not sure where you pulled all that from in this post, but I think on what is your main point that we will have to agree to disagree. Do I think some on the left are giving deliberate aid and comfort? Yes, in point of fact I do. Do I think that many, many more are far more interested in smearing the military and in defeating their main enemy the evil Bush/Cheney regime? Yes. Do I think that there are far too many on the left that are much more interested in feelings than in fact, and prepared to ignore or dismiss anything that threatens their insular world view? Yes. Do I think all on the left fall in one or more of these categories? No. To be blunt, I don't want to sink to the levels of ignorance and bigotry they show. Discourse is a crucial part of the underpinnings of our Great Experiment, and there are more than enough (primarily on the left, I admit, IMO) that want to destroy it -- no need to help them. Besides, for all those that want to go with feelings and not facts, or have no interest in facts, there are those that do. As I said, we may just have to agree to disagree on this.

LW

[Arch]

LW:

Rain cut our walk short but I'm glad to hear we are single malt fans both. Once in the UK, I ordered a scothch & water the barman asked me if I wanted ice.

"Absolutely not!" I replied. "I am an American not a savage!"

Great line. The Brits were all pleased.

Arch

[Laughing Wolf]

Arch, I love it! BTW, if you have not found the Scotch Malt Wiskey Society, let me know and I will send you info. An outstanding selection of good single malts: Speyside, Highland, Islay, Lowland. The HQ Chapter House in Edinburg is very nice, and the House in London isn't too shabby. Single Malts Rule!

LW

[MICHAEL in MI]

Laughing Wolf - Fair enough. I am just tired of seeing the Left get away with this and then seeing the military community seemingly, in my opinion, let them off the hook.

I don't know many people on the Left who have any integrity and are interested in acknowledging facts and debating the issues related to the war on the basis of putting those facts into proper context and perspective. Maybe you all do. That's great. But for me, everyone on the Left I have met or "debated" online falls into one of the categories you listed above and I now consider Leftists to be the enemy. Just as I consider the media the enemy. As well as John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, John Murtha, Harry Reid, etc.

But I know that my viewpoint can be though of as "extreme" so. We can agree to disagree. I just feel that the more these people are allowed to get away with their seditious behaviour, the more they will continue to do it.

[Laughing Wolf]

Michael,

I do know a few; and, there are many days I despair of finding anyone on that part of the spectrum who is not as you describe. I despair in that I would love to see the law upheld -- which means that those who leak classified info, those who publish it, and those who knowingly and willfully do things aimed at undermining public support (and public debate) and the war effort, be they politician, journalist, or other, are held to the full responsibilities of citizenship. What has been done here with this BS artist and with TNR is that the lies are exposed, and that those who will see, can see. It's not perfect, but it's a start. Anything, any little bit, helps.

LW

[bthun]

What has been done here with this BS artist and with TNR is that the lies are exposed, and that those who will see, can see. It's not perfect, but it's a start. Anything, any little bit, helps.

Absolutely LW.

Michael in MI,

I understand your frustration. A good friend once told me that the the progressives emote their way through issues yet the conservatives are expected behave as adults. That statement by my friend has over time, tempered my once fairly hot (so I'm told) temper. Well, that and age.

I have nothing but respect for Grim and LW for their willingness to patiently and with much more courtesy than I could muster during situations in which someone flings obscenities and diversions to the topic at hand, try to persuade with logic, reason and facts said person to another perspective.

Try to think of it as a hearts/minds endeavor and always remember, unless and until the shooting starts on the soil of the homeland, illegitimi non carborundum.

[MICHAEL in MI]

Laughing Wolf

"What has been done here with this BS artist and with TNR is that the lies are exposed, and that those who will see, can see. It's not perfect, but it's a start. Anything, any little bit, helps."

I completely agree that any little bit helps. I just want to make sure the military community does not make the same mistake that President Bush has done through his entire time in office in granting the best of intentions to his political enemies. The ends justify the means for the Left. Just as it is tough to fight this military war against an enemy who disregards all rules of war and all sense of humanity and will do everything and anything to win, so too is it tough to fight the Left here on the homefront when they disregard facts, disregard integrity and will break every rule, tell any lie, distort every fact in order to push their agenda and win their domestic battle for power.

bthun - I completely understand what you are saying and I, too, have the utmost respect for GRIM and Laughing_Wolf as well as all the military and civilian members who post here at Blackfive. Not to mention those who post at the other milblogs I read on a daily basis, Mudville Gazette, Op-For, THE TANK, MilBlogs, just to name a few. The more I have learned about the military community, the more I have developed such an admiration and respect for the people in the military. For their patience, their knowledge, their intelligence and the amazing restraint, patience, reasoned debate and discipline with which they conduct themselves. They are truly better men than me and I can only guess that much of that comes from their discipline that they learned in the military. It is something that I know I struggle with every day... trying to keep myself disciplined and patient when I am a very emotional, passionate person who wears his heart on his sleeve far too often for my own good.

That said, I just don't see the point of directing "hearts and minds" COIN strategy towards the likes of the CODE PINK, Daily Kos, Moveon.org, United for Peace and Justice, Andrew Sullivan, Juan Cole, DemocratUnderground, Cindy Sheehan, Rosie O'Donnell, Keith Olbermann, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, John Murtha, et al crowd. 99% of the Leftists I know all adore those people and treat what they have to say as "gospel" and treat the facts I present them and the milbogs to which I refer them as "propaganda" and lies. So the reason I am expressing a little frustration with GRIM and Laughing Wolf is because it seems that they are trying to win the hearts and minds of the groups/individuals (as well as those who support them) I listed above. And I see that as a fruitless endeavor. Where GRIM/Laughing_Wolf and I have a disconnect is that they don't see Leftists in the general terms that I do.

As Laughing Wolf said, we will have to agree to disagree, but it does not take away from the great respect I have for him and GRIM, even on this issue.

[Kat-Missouri/USA]

Well...I think Michael that if we're going to use the COIN phrase, then you really have to understand how it works in Iraq and Afghanistan to apply it here. In fact, it is not AQ or hardcore insurgents we are directing our COIN at. It is the general population and those that might be coat tail riders because it is expedient, closest to their ideology or because their natural inclinations and habits have them leaning towards that direction when, given the chance they might rather stand down considering the lack of credibility AQ has and their tendency to do scorched earth and total war on those that disagree with them.

Same here. it is not the true Code Pink folks you will ever hope to change or persuade. It is the mothers who have no idea about the war or the military and only know that their sons and daughters are maybe dying for something they see as worthless. Those you may be able to pull along. It is the citizen who wonders exactly how long we will be at war and how many must die before it will end. That being their primary concern you may be able to pull them along as well.

The point is to deny territory and not start wars with people that might be helpful in the future if they see that their own wants and desires could coincide with ours. Such as, in fact, the surge working and the possibility that we could bring this to a satisfactory close that also meets the average American's desire to not be at war for ever and not have to be worried about security.

People are rather short term in their future thoughts. No one is talking about or imagining the long term over all war or Afghanistan for that matter. Iraq is the hottest and ugliest in their face. The truth is, we may as yet be having a similar argument over Afghanistan when Iraq is done.

[MICHAEL in MI]

Kat - Good point about the domestic COIN strategy. I wasn't applying it properly, and your explanation makes more sense. I was not separating the ignorant (ignorant Americans = ignorant average Iraqis) from the extremists (CODE PINKos, et all = terrorists, in terms of this COIN analogy). I do understand how the COIN strategy works in Afghanistan and Iraq, however I just wasn't applying it properly domestically.