Charlie Rangel- Another condescending jackass

Posted By Uncle Jimbo

I realize I ruffled some feathers here when I agreed with Charlie Rangel about a draft. He was being a grandstanding, scumbag politician, I was serious and still am. That aside Charlie Rangel better steer clear of the military for a while. He has joined F John Kerry and for that matter far too much of the left in demeaning his betters who currently serve in the military. I am well aware that Charlie served in Korea as a young man, but instead of taking that experience as a positive that helped an uneducated loser like him become an educated loser and member of Congress, I repeat myself, he decided that anyone who chooses the noble goal of keeping all of us safe is an inferior who couldn't compete in the rarefied air he breathes in DC. I'll let him hang himself. h/t Allah who has video of the over-processed punkass

I want to make it abundantly clear: if there’s anyone who believes that these youngsters want to fight, as the Pentagon and some generals have said, you can just forget about it. No young, bright individual wants to fight just because of a bonus and just because of educational benefits. And most all of them come from communities of very, very high unemployment. If a young fella has an option of having a decent career or joining the army to fight in Iraq, you can bet your life that he would not be in Iraq.

I guess it's inconceivable to Chuck that there are actually people who can look at the world see the dangers we face and consciously choose to meet that threat so others don't have to. He also repeats the repeatedly debunked BS about the poor brown kids dying so W and Cheney can make money. What a world class jackass. Enjoy your two years in the sun you sanctimonious, s**thead, You , Pelosi, Jackass Murtha, Freakin' Lurch, Al Gore, Howard Dean, there is no way that cast of clowns doesn't remind America that even though things have been tough, handing the keys to to a bunch of asylum inmates doesn't make much sense either.

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/2819/6948142

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Charlie Rangel- Another condescending jackass:

» Video: Rangel says men join the army from Bill's Bites
Video: Rangel says men join the army only if they can’t have “a decent career”Allahpundit Hence his support for the draft. If even our volunteers are there involuntarily, why shouldn’t everyone be? [video link]I want to make it abundantly clear: [Read More]

Comments

[Scrapiron]

Time for all former and current members of the military to march on D.C. and not leave until a tree is decorated with Rangel and Hanoi John. Anyone that objects can join them in the same tree. This would only be a couple of years ahead of the third world country we will become under the current crop of dimwits.

[local girl]

I could in no way have said it better. Who do these clowns talk to and get the impression no one wants to fight for their country? On the contrary I sure have met few and far between people who share their opinion.

[jordan]

I think alot of people are about to deeply regret voting these guys into power.

Those that didn't vote for them already regret it.

[Chuck]

Rangel isn't concerned about national security. He's concerned about how to turn the military into a mechanism to promote class warfare in order for the DNC to build political power. Period.

RLTW

Chuck

[D. Smith]

Its statements like these that are continually made by the democratic party that make me DESPISE them. As screwed up as many republicans have been, they don't even come CLOSE to this. This is F&%$ing treasonous. F the democrats. It is they that empower our enemies. Period. They lost us the last serious war and they're gonna loose this one for us, too. If there is a dark side to America, it is that we somehow spawn these f@#$ing cowards. And screw any republican who doesn't shout from the rafters in the capital and demand SCALPS for this behavior...

[Some Soldier's Mom]

so who's got the stats on how much money is spent by troops on education during/after military service, how many applications are received by the service academies and the money for Green-to-Gold for Mr. Rangel? I am married to a (retired) Navy officer who earned his college degrees while in service, and have 2 sons serving: one who earned his college degree while serving and one who is working on his -- even while deployed!

F Rangel... for all the dems claiming that the Repubs were removed from reality, statements like these from Rangel and Kerry prove that the dems are even further removed from the thinking populace.

[JHall]

Rangel:"No young, bright individual wants to fight just because of a bonus and just because of educational benefits".

Me: No, Charlie, you're right. They wounld'nt fight just for bonuses and educational benefits. What they fight for is America. Old fashioned partiotism, Charlie, love of country. Clearly you don't know about that. They DO!!!!

[JihadGene]

Meanwhile, in an observation tower south of Kaesong DPRK and slightly north of the 38th Parallel (Korean DMZ)-

Great Reader, KIM Jong IL-
Yo! General Wang!

WANG-
Wut up yo most highfullness?!

KIM-
US Conglessman Charie Rangwell say "GI in today's US Army is Numba Fluckin 10". Say dey are all wooser's!

WANG-
You bet your sweet&sour koondingie on dat bloss! He say dat all light!!

KIM-
Rook in brynockulars over dare... to da souf!... You see Americlan GI's?

WANG-
Show nuff. Rook rike 2nd Infantry Division tloops of US Army.

KIM-
Wot you tink!?

WANG-
They "ARMY STRONG" bloss. NUMBA 1!!! ...Hey, Blossman!?

KIM-
Yeah Wang?

WANG-
If wot Conglessman Langell say is true ablout US soldiers...they beeing looooosers and all...I damn slur doan wanna see no draft in da US. Deese guys an gals rookin so glood dat dey ought to be in Hollywood!!!.... And if Dlaftee's are moe betta...Oh holy mother of pearl!!! We dead meat blossman!!!!

KIM-
Snap out of it Wang! You make me RAFF OUT ROUD!!! Leemember, Charie Rangegail is US Conglessman, pruss he a Democlat. You even tink he cran tell da troof?

WANG-
WOW! You right bloss. Tank for your honorable and most wise counsil... Excuse please?

KIM-
Where for you glow to?

WANG_
To river... have to clean out shorts.

KIM-
Oklay...wish I had somma dat ARMY STRONG!

God bless our US troops!!! JG

[Darthparrish]

WOW JihadGene, that was only about one of the most racist posts towards asians that i have ever seen.

[tom]

hey, the people spoke and gave them a mandate.

sucks where you're on the other side now, doesn't it?

[Blackfive]

tom - I've always been on the other side from Charlie Rangel, Howard Dean, John F Kerry, Ted Kennedy, etc.

[Bill Faith]

tom:

"Man date " Isn't that where two Congressmen who are "just friends" go out on the town together and kiss each other goodnight? There's probably a line about "strange bedfellows" to be had here too but I'm not quite that pissed. Yet.

If the people are so frickin' hot for a draft why isn't the incoming Squeaker of the House backing the idea?

[Darthparrish]

He meant that we had to spend the last 6 years listening to a Republican controlled government that was "mandated" by the people, and he's simply pointing out that it must suck to be on the losing side.

[Ghost of Habu, The Pit Viper]

"hey, the people spoke and gave them a mandate.

sucks where you're on the other side now, doesn't it?"

Well, actually what's hard is going from a minority position into a majority position where now it's your turn to be the grown-ups. Guess we'll get to see if your side is up to it.

Early returns (and not having even taken the reins of power, yet) are less than stellar. It's not always fun & games when you're in charge.

You want to keep your "mandate"? - your team better start to get serious, because so far, it's looking pretty minor league.

Btw, this whole set of coments by Charlie Rangel isn't smart, but honestly, it pales in comparison to his earlier statement that "Mississippi gets more than their fair share back in federal money, but who the hell wants to live in Mississippi?"

Link is: http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/state/15972549.htm

Now, THAT was a truely politically stupid and ignorant statement. Remember, Trent Lott is now the Republican Minority Whip from "guess where", and Chuckie Schumer & Hillary are going to get to make a "lott" of choices - either play nice with Senator Lott or instead carry Charlie Rangel's water in the Senate.

Because, odds on, there wil be a 'toll' placed in the Senate on everything that good ole Charlie wants passed. He's going to regret shooting off this mouth on that one.

I just love politics.....

[JihadGene]

Darth & Tom-
Da turd twins. When one plops up ....here's anudder POS too help out homebloy. Coincidence?...not even.
May Borat's deceased wife haunt you boff mudder puckers!

Ruv yooo wrong time,
Kim Jong Il

[Darthparrish]

Hey Bill Faith, if you want to know about "man dating" why dont you just ask former republican congressman Mark Foley, Im sure he can "fill you in"

[Uncle Jimbo]

Hey Darth,

JihadGene has been doing the tough work of channeling Kim Jong Il for a while. It ain't about Asians or racists, it's about a nutty freak with a pompadour.

Cordially,

Uncle J

[Darthparrish]

JihadGene
First off you need a spell checker bud. Thats just pathetic. Or as you would say it: "nadlkgkln ljkgsda jlhagj ajglag" Subtitles: "My name is JihadGene and I type like a monkey!"
And secondly why would someone like you who supports the US army name yourself after what is widely considered to be a word meaning " A Mulsim religious war against non believers"?

[local girl]

Tom,

what mandate? Just because the Dems p/u'd more seats, look how close the races were! (49-50% of the voters, I hardly call that a landslide or mandate) Besides, the Dem candidates that did win, ran to the center not the far left looney side.

[Michael in MI]

You know what? I hate to agree with Tom and DarthParrish, but the American people were told prior to the election that this is what the Democratic Party stood for: they hated the military, they denigrated the military, they didn't support the troops or their mission and they would do everything they could to destroy the military and withdraw from Iraq and the overall "war on terror". And the American people voted them into power.

I have nothing other to conclude than the American people also hate the military, agree with the denigrating comments the Democrats make about the military, also do not support the troops or their mission and agree with the Democrats doing everything they can to destroy the military and withdraw the military from Iraq and the overall "war on terror".

Someone tell me why I should come to a different conclusion? The American people knew this is who were the Democrats and they gave them power anyway. So November 7th, 2006 told me that the American public also hates the military and does not support the troops.

We can sit here and rip on the Democrats all we want. The American public voted them into power. So either the American public hates the military or the American public are made up of a bunch of ignorant morons.

Either way, it is the American public who should be the target of our ridicule, not the Democrats. Everyone knew this is what the Democrats are. They are now no longer afraid to hide their disdain and hatred of the military and their mission, since they know the majority of the American public agrees with them.

Has to make those serving in the military darn proud to be risking their lives every day for an ungrateful bunch of a-holes. And no, I don't mean the Iraqis. I mean the American public. Our men and women are risking their lives to protect a group of people who hate them.

Nice morale builder huh?!

[Ghost of Habu, The Pit Viper]

Local Girl:

Do the Democrats have a "mandate" I'd (personally) tend to say "Yes". Let's not forget that they did run the table for the Senate to get their paper thin majority, even as close as those races were in terms of vote counts. But there's a very serious problem in that "success"....

Problem is, that the Democratic party appears to have at least 5 different sections of their party each claiming a "mandate", and most of those different "mandates" all conflict with one another.

So, my tendency is not to argue over whether a "Mandate" exists, but which one of the many are they choosing to push out there, and most importantly, how many votes is this particular one bringing to the table. If it doesn't bring at least 51 "Yes" votes to the table in the US Senate, it's going no place fast.

[Darthparrish]

Michael in MI:
"Has to make those serving in the military darn proud to be risking their lives every day for an ungrateful bunch of a-holes. And no, I don't mean the Iraqis. I mean the American public. Our men and women are risking their lives to protect a group of people who hate them."

We do not hate the people serving in the military. Since when has anyone stood up and clearly uttered the words: "WE HATE THE MILITARY AND EVERYONE THAT SERVES IN IT." I'll tell you when, never. We just believe that their lives are worth more to us than the people in Iraq are worth to us. We just dont agree with what they are being told to do by the leaders. It doesnt mean that we hate them, it means, like i said before that we value an american soldiers life over that of an Iraqi, which is the way it should be.

[Bill Faith]

Actually, yes, it does suck to be on the losing side, which is just where Charlie Rangel wants to put us again. I know what it feels like to come home from a war and watch my country abandon the people I fought to defend. This country spit on the graves of over 58,000 KIA and in the faces of 2.6 million American Viet Nam veterans, not to mention the Aussie, Canadian, Kiwi, Brit, South Korean and other troops who served there, and abandoned millions of South Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians to reeducation camps, starvation, or outright execution. "Peace with Honor," that's called. Rangel wants to do it all over again in Iraq. I could give a flying f*ck about his moonbat draft theories but we don't need an idiot like that anywhere near the Congressional purse strings.

[Michael in MI]

DarthParrish - The troops in Iraq say they want to stay there and finish the job, keep the relationships they have made with the Iraqis good ones, finish their reconstruction projects, finish training the Iraqis so they can defend their own country and not have to have American military members come in there and do it for them. From what you have said, it sounds like you do not support that. As such, you do not support the troops or their mission.

In addition, if you support people such as Rangel and Kerry, who denigrate the military, as well as Dick Durbin who considers the members of the military to be torturers the likes of the Nazis, as well as Ted Kennedy who considers the members of the military to be torturers the likes of those under Saddam Hussein, as well as John Murtha who considers the Marines to be mass murderers and "broken", as well as John Kerry who considers the members of the military to be terrorists who terrorize women and children in the middle of the night, then that is also not showing support of the members of the military.

If someone called me dumb, a terrorist, a torturer, compared me to a Nazi and said I was a cold blooded murderer, I would not consider that person to like me and would bet that they probably hated me.

That is why I say the Democrats hate the military. And when someone votes for a party which hates the military, I can only guess that those voters must hate the military as well, otherwise they would not put people in charge of the military who hate them.

[BloodSpite]

Interesting Darth.

I'm sure there's at least 3,000 New Yorkers who might disagree with you.

Or perhaps you'd rather talk political ethos with Bill since, you know, he's the one that started a lot of the problems we're trying to clean up now.

Or maybe we could take one step further, and discuss the moral fortitude of folks like Bill who run to Canada. Or Kerry's comments regarding troops, or even Dick Durbins remakrs comparing US Interogators to Nazi's Or perhaps you prefer the Democratic view of US Soliders are terrorists

Value of American Soldiers by the Democratic party, indeed.

So...correct me if I miss something here...if everyone thinks like you, (which I will give you points, you can hate the leaders not the troops)..then why again is Code Pink protesting outside of VA Hospitals to US Soldier wounded?

Because correct me if I'm wrong..but doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of "Support the Troops"...or am I missing something here?

[Michael in MI]

I completely forgot about that, Bloodspite. Howard Dean, DNC Chair, and John Murtha have both shown support of CODE PINK and appeared at fund-raisers for CODE PINK. CODE PINK has donated some of its funds to the terrorists in Fallujah, so that they could use that money against our US forces in Fallujah. Howard Dean and John Murtha supporting a group which supports our enemy? Helping raise funds for a group which donates those funds to our enemy? And Democrats voting back into office John Murtha who supports our enemy? Nah, Democrats and Democrat voters don't hate the US military, they just want them dead.

[Bill Faith]

Power line posted a better video of Rangel showin' his a$$ and made it available for imbedding in other sites. I added it to my post at http://www.smalltownveteran.net/bills_bites/2006/11/video_rangel_sa.html

[FbL]

Just to throw fuel on the fire:

I was seraching for somethign for a post of my own on this and found Rangel's idiot statements in 2004 about Iraq being a "tax on the poor."

[Mary*Ann]

Don't forget Dennis Kucinich who has also cozied up to the CodePinkos.

[American Soldier]

I had my A.A. when I joined and haven't found a better life than the Army. Its much more than those that haven't served could imagine. If the Dems. get the draft then the anti-war folks would feel that it is their right and their duty to keep their kids out of the fight. Thank god the 60's are over with. I feel that people should serve their country but I don't want them on my Tank crew if they don't have the love of their country to join on their own.

[Rich Casebolt]

I had hoped that the Democratic leadership would act responsibly, once they regained power.

While there is still time for them to change, I have to agree with Habu ... the early returns are less than stellar.

There are Democrats that I could vote for ... but the biggest reason this independent voted straight-R this time around, is to do whatever I could (which isn't much, in NY) to keep this less-than-stellar leadership from taking over.

No, it doesn't suck to be on the other side, Tom ... it sucks to have the same stunads that led the way in emasculating our military and intel apparatus for the last 40 or so years ... and were the chief proponents of INACTION in the face of clearly-evident enemies ... back in power.

And Darth ... the difference between you and I is not in valuing American lives ... the difference is in our view of what we need to be doing to protect that value.

You are apparently willing to repeat the folly of the stunads ... you would have let Saddam stay in power; having lost that option, you now are willing to let Iraq get hijacked again. In either case, this would only delay the INEVITIBLE conflict with the powers-that-would-be in Iraq... but allow that enemy to gain in strength, cunning, and boldness.

That puts our warfighters at even greater risk, than they are now enduring in Iraq.

I am not willing to see this happen ... I want Iraq rendered immune to future hijacking, and the enemies within it on the run -- and on the way to extinction, unless they turn from their brutality -- from a rights-respecting Iraqi government (with our help, where needed) ...

... and neither is this President willing to see the empowerment of our enemies, as long as he does not go wobbly from all the unprincipled political animals in the menagerie of the opposition, chewing on his legs like pirahanas.

Especially when they try to persuade us that this is a personal war for this President ... be it for oil, or Halliburton, or revenge, or his Saudi "buddies", or the Jews ... or any of the other harebrained theories that have spawned from the mix of class envy and Christophobia that has been continually stirred by the hard Left ...

... who now seems to have mucn in common with the incoming leadership of our Congress.

I want American lives, both military and civilian, protected ... and the way I see it, the best way to protect them is to decisively defeat our clearly-evident enemies at the earliest opportunity, before they grow any stronger or bolder.

This war against Western civilization -- in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and elsewhere -- was started long before we acknowledged it as a war ... and it isn't going away, just because it doesn't fit your preconceptions and/or the conventional wisdom.

The question, when facing the forces of radical Islam and/or its secular counterparts in the MidEast, isn't whether or not to fight ... it is WHEN ... and HOW.

[JihadGene]

Fbl-

More MOGAS or JP-4 for the fire...regarding Rangel's 2004 statement of Iraq being a death tax on the "poor and minority" groups of Americans... I went to the link you gave...

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1393.shtml

and with Rangel's BS/statements was a picture of Marines attending a memorial service for a Lance Corporal Levi T. Angell. I did a google of US Marine, Levi T. Angell, got a web page...including his picture. Ironically Angell was a white male who enlisted after high school graduation. His hometown was Cloquet, Minnesota and not South Central or East Los Angeles.

Regardless of your color, and where the hell you came from, we are brothers & sisters in arms. Rangel categorizes our troops and stereotypes them. He's living in the past. He obviously hasn't gotten up off of his US Government Money-Maker and seen our volunteer US Forces! I guess he never did his homework and continues on the same path today, lazy US Government Pensioned POS.

[BloodSpite]

Once many years ago someone suggested that there should be a regulation that Military Members should not pay Federal Taxes on their income.

The premise of such is that by their tax money funding their leaders of whom orders must be obeyed thereby a conflict of interest was presented. This was exacerbated with the ideology that in effect they were funding their own salary.

I mention this because here we have a perfect example of why it wouldn't, at first glance anyway, be a bad idea.

Here you have a Governmental member of *ahem* good standing wishing to create a military draft (that most assuredly he and his will be excluded from), and the very military he speaks of is footing the bill for his salary. This also can be used in regards to the *cough* nice people Michael in MI mentioned in great detail, as well as my later comments.

The US Democratic party. Putting the screws to the Little Guy and Sending them a Bill for it since 1956.

[Uncle Jimbo]

You are an excellent knife-sticker BS, sweet.

[BloodSpite]

I had an exceptional SFC with whom educated me and mine in great detail regarding the art of placing edged weapons in to gainful employment at John F Kennedy's noble school of higher development and learning at lovely Ft Bragg.

He wasn't bad to trade wits with over beer either :)

[Tink]

B5..

Totally off topic just an FYI, there's a name running around these parts lately that's very similar to someone near and dear to my heart.

NO friggin' relation...

(thank God)

[Concerned Citizen of Indiana]

Hey! Just to let DarthParrish and Company know...My husband has been to Pakistan and Afghanistan as a civilian...and the children he saw sitting with their parents, eating in McDonald's, in Pakistan, ARE JUST LIKE OUR AMERICAN CHILDREN. -They just want to live life and have a chance and be kids! Shame on us as a nation to say that our American lives are more valuable than theirs! -

If you could just see the faces of the little bitty girls sitting in the classroom in Kabul...

[Darthparrish]

Michael in MI:

"In addition, if you support people such as Rangel and Kerry, who denigrate the military, as well as Dick Durbin who considers the members of the military to be torturers the likes of the Nazis, as well as Ted Kennedy who considers the members of the military to be torturers the likes of those under Saddam Hussein, as well as John Murtha who considers the Marines to be mass murderers and "broken", as well as John Kerry who considers the members of the military to be terrorists who terrorize women and children in the middle of the night, then that is also not showing support of the members of the military."

I hate to have to post this again, because i already made mention of these events in an earlier post, but apparently it didnt set in. Those comments were not just pulled out of thin air to spite the military.

Im just going to post the events and a brief description of them this time.

For Kerry, Murtha, & Kennedy: They were probably referring to this:

Abu Ghraib - torture and prisoner abuse

Haditha killings - alleged murder of 24 civilians, including women and children

Ishaqi incident - alleged murder of 11 civilians, including five children

Hamadiya incident - alleged kidnapping and murder of an Iraqi man named Hashim Ibrahim Awad

Mahmudiyah incident - alleged gang-rape and murder of a 14 year old girl, the murder of her parents and 7 year old sister.

Mukaradeeb - alleged bombing and shooting of at least 42 civilians

As for Dick Durbin
He said this: "If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime - Pol Pot or others - that had no concern for human beings," the senator said June 14.

And these were among the incidents he was referring to:

Murat Kurnaz's statements are:
Shock rooms: "(In Guantanamo) I was subjected to severe torture. For three months, I stayed in these cold-hot shock rooms. When you go into the room they pump very hot air inside. After that, they pump extremely cold air. It is a horrifying kind of torture. There were various sorts torture including electrical shocks, drowning in water tanks, depriving of food and water, chaining and hanging to the ceiling."
"I witnessed people dying": "They brought a tub full of water. They dipped our heads and held them in water. There I witnessed many people die. They stripped us of our clothes, chaining and hanging us to the wall. I was kept hung to the wall for 4-5 days. Then doctor used to come and check if we could stand more or not. We were not given any food for 20 days. They only gave us one piece of toast, one carrot or one apple per day."

Juma Al Dossary:
In December 2005, Amnesty International published the account of Juma Al Dossary, a 32-year-old Bahraini national. Al Dossary says in three years he has been interrogated some 600 times, fed rotten food, beaten many times (by up to eight guards at once), made to walk on broken glass and pushed so that his face hit the glass shards, made to walk on barbed wire, and has had cigarettes put out on his body. He also reports frequent sexual assaults and other degrading treatment, similar to what has been reported from Abu Ghraib.

What Durbin actually did was say that the actions of some American soldiers would, to most people, sound like the actions of Nazis or Soviets if the context were removed. Which is true.

Michael in MI:
"...that is also not showing support of the members of the military."

Now do you mean to say that if you point out the flaws that do exist in parts of the military that it means that you dont support it? If that is so then that would be the equivilant of someone witnessing a crime and not reporting it, because it might be "disrespectful". These men had every right to say what they did, and i think its cowardly that you would rather simply look the other way.

[Darthparrish]

Concerned Citizen of Indiana:

If i have to choose between us or them, im afraid i have to choose us.

[Darthparrish]

BloodSpite:
"Or Kerry's comments regarding troops,"

For one i love how you link to comments he made 35 years ago, that was great.

But i also love the fact that things like what he described did happen in Vietnam, and heres a great example:

The My Lai Massacre - a massacre committed by U.S. soldiers on hundreds of UNARMED Vietnamese CIVILIANS, mostly WOMEN and CHILDREN, on March 16, 1968, in the hamlet of My Lai, during the Vietnam War.

[Concerned Citizen of Indiana]

Hmmm...wasn't aware it is a choice...I thought we were trying to bring about a win/win situation allbeit at a price...

[Zac]

Hi guys, my first post here.

Micheal in MI

I kinda have to respectfully disagree with you on some points. I don't think the American public voting in the Democrats was meant to be a sign of hate towards the military. I think most Americans are trying to live their daily lives and don't have the time or initiative to always dig down to the real story. Most come home from work, watch a little news and get on with what they are doing. If you are just watching the news on TV you know you aren't gonna get any kind of good news coming from Iraq. I think people made the switch to get something to change in the situation which is constantly painted by the media to look like a stalemate, hopeless, or completely lost. Until I started doing my own research and going to other outlets I felt much the same way about Iraq. Feels like sending our troops over there to get nothing accomplished because of politicians. Then you find out they ARE doing many great things in spite of all the adversity and it completely changes how you can view the war (I also think people don't quite grasp the reality that we are at war but thats a whole different issue). Anyways know that this civilian will always support you guys and appreciates what you do for us.

Darthparrish

Haditha killings - alleged murder of 24 civilians, including women and children

Ishaqi incident - alleged murder of 11 civilians, including five children

Hamadiya incident - alleged kidnapping and murder of an Iraqi man named Hashim Ibrahim Awad

Mahmudiyah incident - alleged gang-rape and murder of a 14 year old girl, the murder of her parents and 7 year old sister.

Mukaradeeb - alleged bombing and shooting of at least 42 civilians

Notice how all of these have ALLEGED in front of them. As in not proven. Now if the troops did something wrong they deserve punishment, but for these jackasses to sit there and trash our troops over what could be false charges shows a pretty big contempt for the military in my opinion. If they would spend half the time trying to help our troops as they do trying to make them look like murderers with problems then I think we could make some headway on things.

[Michael in MI]

DarthParrish - For every alleged (and actual) flaw that exists in the US military, there are hundreds of examples of heroism, success and progress. All those people I mentioned did not put any of those situations into context, nor did they report of the hundreds of examples of heroism, success and progress of the American military. If parents did nothing but broadcast the "flaws" of their children to the world for years and never told of any of the good things about their children, I would bet those children would eventually feel that their parents felt they were nothing but flawed. I would also bet that those who listened to what the parents had to say about the children would feel the children only had flaws and no good points.

The "flaws" are an exeption to the rule in the military. But listening to the Democrats and the media, one would guess they were the rule. That is the point.

[Rich Casebolt]

If i have to choose between us or them, im afraid i have to choose us.

Darth, have you ever considered that choosing for them ... is choosing for us?

The question is, who among "them" is choosing for both us and themselves ... or only choosing for themselves, to be the overlords?

The former need to be our friends.

The latter need to be our targets.

That is the way of precision-guided ruthlessness.

No better friend ... no worse enemy.

[Rita]

Rangel is a complete Ass Clown. He has lost his sense of reality, and he needs to just shut the hell up. I really have given up on some of our Representatives in the government. I am utterly disgusted with a lot of them, and to think people actually voted for these simpletons.

Our military is the brightest it has ever been, and vast amount have a college education. It is not the military of the past, it is the military of the future. And we see many men and women who join who actually "love" what they do no matter the low pay. They do it for honor, dedication, patriotism, and for the love of country and ideals. To have a politican slam the men and the women of the military as "uneducated" is the new low. It is time to give Rangel a piece of our minds, and a good kick in that fat ass of his.

[tom]

Bill Faith, a "man date" is something GOP'ers do in their closets... Jeff Gannon, Bill Foley, Ted Haggard, etc.. etc....

btw, with all the Chickenlittle talk around here, is it safe to assume we'll all be speaking Farsi by 2008? Holy shit, people, get a grip.

[FbL]

btw, with all the Chickenlittle talk around here, is it safe to assume we'll all be speaking Farsi by 2008?

No, but if things move as quickly as some in congress now want, we may have our first "conventional" suicide bombing in s msll near you by then.

[Geo]

Anyone else love it when people start spouting about every time the US or US military has screwed up, yet refuse to admit to the atrocities commited by Saddam and others of his ilk? CNN is very guilty of this, as being willfully blind to mass murders makes them no better than those who committed them. Clinton should be brought up on war crimes for his being able to do something, but didn't.

We've forgotten about the rape rooms, haven't we... about how his sons used to pick out young girls from crowds at events, take them, use them in ways that would make anyone's blood boil, then drop them back off with their families.

We've forgotten about the MiG-23's armed with chemical weapons, gassing Kurds.

To many on the left, these don't count. What are some of the arguments I've heard? Someone had the gall to say that Iraq can do what it wants with regards to internal policy. By that account, the Holocaust was justified.

I am someone who will have a decent carrer, yet is wanting to sign up with the military anyway (still a toss up on what branch). Even if I don't, I'll be working closely with some of the brightest and most dedicated people I've ever met.

Now to do something I rarely do: Fan Flames!

Darth, speaking on names, why is your name coming from a character that was the allegorical embodyment of evil in a space opera?

Here's a tip for rebuttals on web-boards, all you lovely trolls. Longer posts, specifically ones that are well thought out, constructive, and contribute to the conversation, may stand a better chance of convincing people to your point of view. Getting hung up on "man date" isn't showing intelegence (mostly from tom, Bill Faith has proven it earlier).

Apologies to all for the second part, the trolling here has gotten to the point of hampering debate.

[jordan]

Darth, what's your point? That bad things and fog happen in war? People are not responding to your tiresome repetitions of these cases because they've analyzed/dissected them ad nauseum here before and know there are multiple holes in MSM reporting and claims about each.

At bottom, do you want America kicked to the curb? Or just Bush?

Michael in MI, Agreed, the American voter has an obligation to scrutinize what he's being told, and to verify truths as much as possible. The people are weary of the constant drumbeat, as Zac points out, and are in effect hostages to whatever the media tells them. They have no context within which to place these daily killings and bombings.

This electoral result also reflects the dearth of public civics education. If the people had an accurate understanding of what's happening in this war, and the impact of disunity on the safety and mission of our soldiers, the result would have been different (not that many Republicans deserved to win). It all goes back to education, both in current affairs and overall understanding of civic duty and belief that politics should stop at the water's edge.

These two things, versus hatred for the military, are probably more responsible. However, the American people should be held accountable for this vote, and made to understand it's potential ramifications for the military in Iraq. They need to understand that pulling the rug out from under the soldiers it's own elected representatives sent into harm's way is short-sighted and unethical. Nothing indicates they know that yet.

The enemy's enthusiastic parrotting of Dem talking points, and glee upon the Democrat victory, was also downplayed or not covered by the MSM, and so most people don't understand how their vote has emboldened, aided and comforted the enemy.

[BloodSpite]

Once many years ago, in a place far far away and in a military I am no longer a part of, my Command Sgt Major was asked by the loving newspapermen and women of the local Tacoma area why he thought or did not think that Gulf War 1 was a failure and whether or not we should have proceeded to remove Saddam in his entirety.

His response was fairly straightforward and simple. "No matter how you categorize Saddam, evil is still evil, and those that commit evil are evil."

Thereby my response to Darthparrish and his isolationistic approach to America, is fine. lets shut the doors across the board. Lock Down America much as Japan did in the 1500's and see how far we get in the global market.

Further more Darth in regards to Kerry's comments of 35 years ago, some of your voters in the wild world of America are old enough to have those comments reflect them

Just because you may not apply under his definition, does that make the arrow less accurate, the barb less sharp? So what if it a small war, do men not die just the same?

Pray tell. You only addressed my remarks regarding Kerry. Completely ignoring the rest of those presented or links provided.

And based on your presentation, of said facts, then I must ask you this Are you saying every member of the United States Armed Service in 1968 was guilty of Mai Lai?

And if so...then may I happily remind you...That Delta is ready when you are.

[Michael in MI]

Geo - Good point about CNN being willfully blind to Saddam's atrocities. Eason Jordan, if I remember correctly, flat out admitted that CNN did not report the atrocities of Saddam Hussein's Iraq, because they wanted to be able to remain in Saddam's good graces and be able to report from inside Iraq.

jordan - I will concede that "hate" was too strong a word to describe the American people and Democrats' feelings towards the American military. In some cases, it is probably accurate, but as an overall broad description, it is wrong.

However, I do hold the American people accountable for their ignorance. After 9/11 I did everything I could to educate myself about American history, American and world military history, American military information in general and then came upon Rush Limbaugh, blogs and then milblogs. I did this, because I felt it was important for me to be informed. I made the effort to become informed. I believe that those who remain ignorant and uninformed simply are that way still, because they do not feel it is important. It comes down to apathy among the general population in this country. Apathy, ignorance and an utter lack of knowledge and education with respect to current events, politics, world history, militay history and anything to do with how the military operates.

That is the weakness of the American population and America in general (our politicians are ignorant and uneducated as well, especially in regards to military matters and military history) and our enemies are exploiting it perfectly with the aid and comfort of a willing American and International media.

[Concerned Citizen of Indiana]

Here Here! Talk about Americans having lost our sense of our American Heritage...no understanding of history, military or world events... Americans generally have no idea how many died in the Civil War, WWII, or any other. How many people walking in the mall actually know how many we lost in the Gulf War??? -52 to friendly fire that I know of-largely because we couldn't tell in our night vision in the Kuwaiti desert if it was a friendly firing on us or Iraqi Republican Guard.

I'm proud to be American because if there is anyone who can make it, fix it, invent it, build it, cure it, or get the job done-Americans can. However, Americans generally need to know more about things that are actually important to know and pass on... rather than just the latest electronics or their XBOX360!(We have one now and I love NBA basketball by the way- and my 8 yr old son can still tell you what party every American President was in- including the whigs)

NOT TO MENTION that Congress is THE MOST EGREGIOUS WASTE of taxpayer dollars in American History...What if congressional positions were actually appointments and you had to prove you knew something about something, or that you could actually get the job done...Don't even mention merit pay... I can't think of any congressional representative that probably stacks up to anyone in the military.

No offense to anyone for generalizing, but we are Americans and we shouldn't ever be outdone on any subject.

[jordan]

All in all, I think it's justified for the military to be frustrated by the way the American public voted this year, That public apathy and misinformation needs to be remedied before 2008. Getting the word out on what wobbly, equivocating public support can do to prospects for victory in war also might help.

[Darthparrish]

Ok, there are a lot of posts i have to respond to so, instead of lumping my responses all together i will try to address each individualy the best i can.

First to ZAC:
"Notice how all of these have ALLEGED in front of them. As in not proven. Now if the troops did something wrong they deserve punishment, but for these jackasses to sit there and trash our troops over what could be false charges shows a pretty big contempt for the military in my opinion."

Yes, i agree with you that all of these incidents with exception of Abu Ghraib (which you didnt mention in your response, but i just wanted to make it a point that at least that one was proven). As for the rest of the "Alleged" incidents, there is a lot of hard evidence against all of these people in these cases. The reason that you say alleged is for legal purposes of being sued for libel. Which brings me to the legal sense of what the word alleged means (especially in these cases) it means that they just havent gone to trial and been officially court martialed, found guilty, and put in jail. In these cases there is so much indesputable evidence be it testimony, video, pictures, falsified reports, or whatever, that they are surely going to be found guilty and in some cases certain parties have already been found guilty.

[Darthparrish]

Next to Michael in MI:

"All those people I mentioned did not put any of those situations into context, nor did they report of the hundreds of examples of heroism, success and progress of the American military."

Unfortunatly thats just how it is in with these situations. What i mean is that there where millions of people who were not in the news today for doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Only those who do things that are above or below what they are supposed to do make the news. Thats why you hear about murders, kidnappings, and robberies because those acts are below the standard of what is expected of people. Just like when people perform some great charity or some firefighter saved 3 people from a burning building, you hear about them for performing well above the standards expected of them. It is human nature to only care about those events because they just dont seem to have an interest in "Mr. Smith" and how he went to work today, did his job as usual,& then went home and had dinner with his family. They dont have all day to tell you everything that happened in the world, so they tell the most interesting pieces of info.

[Darthparrish]

Next to Geo:

(And i realize this is soooo far off topic, but i feel a need to defend myself here.)
And his quite interesting comment:
"Darth, speaking on names, why is your name coming from a character that was the allegorical embodyment of evil in a space opera?"

Well I'm just going to assume that you dont know much (if anything) about Star Wars so let me fill you in a little bit.
First off the "name" darth didnt come from "a character" (meaning one) as you suggest. It actually comes from a long list of characters in the star wars universe.
Secondly, darth is not a name, it is in fact a title, hence why several characters have that in their names. So now that you know that it is a title, say like doctor, king, officer, captian, etc, I can tell you some info about it. The title darth has been used by the Sith for a long time. The title has several meanings: "Lord" being one of them.
Thirdly, I choose this as a screen-name for playing video games and for AOL IM when i was in 7th grade because i like star wars. I've used it ever since. Plus just as a side note, i choose something from a science fiction story, not out of the real world like "Jihad"gene.

[Darthparrish]

BloodSpite:
"Further more Darth in regards to Kerry's comments of 35 years ago, some of your voters in the wild world of America are old enough to have those comments reflect them..."

"Pray tell. You only addressed my remarks regarding Kerry. Completely ignoring the rest of those presented or links provided."

I believe i did reply to all of the comments in my post above, including all of the following, Dick Dubin, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, & John Murtha. So if you go back and re-read my post above from Nov 27, 2006 1:01:07 AM then you might find the answers you seek.

BloodSpite:
"And based on your presentation, of said facts, then I must ask you this Are you saying every member of the United States Armed Service in 1968 was guilty of Mai Lai?"

Absolutely not, and that is a gross exageration of what John Kerry said. He never once said that everyone in Vietnam committed these acts nor did he imply it as you have. Using Mai Lai as an example, i would say that those responsible should be punished. Also those who try to bring up the fact that this event and similar ones did occur in Vietnam, and that they should not be told that they hate the military because they had the stones to say something about these atrocities. That would honestly be like saying one, that if someone witnesses a murder in the US shouldnt report it because is means they hate American citizens. Two, that if an citizen commits a murder that all citizens are just as guilty, which would be ridiculus. However, that is the very thing that you are trying to infer from John Kerry's remarks about the military, and its just not right. So, dont badmouth the people that come forth and point out the wrong doings of others, becuase the people that the guilty wronged deserve justice to.

[Michael in MI]

DarthParrish - "They dont have all day to tell you everything that happened in the world, so they tell the most interesting pieces of info."

I understand your point, but most Americans also do not view the general news as indicative of the state of America in general and the media does not try to paint their news that way either. When people watch the news and only see murders, rapes, accidents, natural disasters, fires, etc, they know that the entire country is not in a state of emergency and every American is not a murderer and rapist, etc.

With regards to the military and the war effort however, that is exactly what the media and the Democrats have been trying to do: only report on the 1 bad incident and not report the 99 good incidents and say that the 1 bad incident out of every 100 is a representation of the military's performance, an example of military members' morality and character and a representation of the overall war effort.

And because the general public is so ignorant of anything regaring military matters or military history or any historical context regarding war, they believe that what the media tells them *is* the rule instead of the exception to the rule.

I want the incidents of bad behavior to be reported, so the guilty will be rooted out, tried and convicted, but I completely disagree with how these things have been reported. Ask anyone in America about this war effort and I bet the first things that come to mind are Abu Graib and Haditha. Are they representative of the entire war effort. Absolutely not. But in the minds of ignorant Americans, they are. Thanks to the "reporting" of the media and the Democrats and the ineptitude of the Republicans and the Administration and the military to counter this misinformation and propaganda campaign.

[Darthparrish]

Micheal in MI:

I have to agree that they could do a better job of finding more good to report about this war, but that isnt to say that they dont. They have reported good things about this war and it would be underhanded to say that they havent. It just seems that they have given more attention to the atrocities of the war that were committed by our own soldiers. One reason that i can suggest why this occurs is that we dont expect our own soldiers to be doing things like this, regardless if it is only a few of them doing it. One thing that stuck with me when i was at Western Illinois studying law enforcement was something that one of my favorite professors told us: "In policing 100,000 officers can do everything write and it only takes one to tarnish all of them. So it is the duty of the 100,000 to make sure that the one doesnt do things to tarnish their badge."

Also Michael in MI

"Ask anyone in America about this war effort and I bet the first things that come to mind are Abu Graib and Haditha. Are they representative of the entire war effort. Absolutely not. But in the minds of ignorant Americans, they are."

Thats human nature, you could ask those same Americans about WWII and what would they say? They would say, Holocaust, Pearl Harbor, and the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. There was sooo much more to that war than that, but does saying that make them ignorant? No, it makes them human.

[septicwad]

There is an exchange of passionate discourse here. That is one factor that makes this country great. Charlie Rangel shoots off his mouth without ammunition and the main stream media give him air time. The following URL gives a detailed examination of the demographics of the U.S Army. The data thorougly refute the allegations and claims of the esteemed Representative Rangel.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda05-08.cfm

[Michael in MI]

DarthParrish - "It just seems that they have given more attention to the atrocities of the war that were committed by our own soldiers. One reason that i can suggest why this occurs is that we dont expect our own soldiers to be doing things like this, regardless if it is only a few of them doing it."

You don't honestly believe that the media is highlighting and focusing on the "atrocities" committed by our troops instead of the overall success and progress simply because we don't expect those things to happen? There is an obvious agenda by the media to portray the actions of the 1 as representative of the actions of the 100,000. And an agenda to portray the 1 bad situation out of 100 as representative of an overall bad situation in Iraq.

To believe otherwise, in my opinion, is to be naive. It is even more obvious now with all the reporting now about the false stories being fed to a willing AP by terrorists posing as police officers. The fact is that the media believes the bad reported by unconfirmed Iraqi sources over the good reported by our own military. I have talked to countless troops in Iraq who have stated that the media flat out will not report the good facts on the ground and continue to report the smallest bad situation as a huge disaster.

There is an obvious agenda.

As I stated before, it would be like the media stating that America was in turmoil and experiencing a national emergency situation based on the 10 murders, 10 fires, 25 car accidents and 5 rapes that occurred across the country on a given night. More people die in America every year related to alcohol or car accidents or murders then soldiers do in a war zone, but no one is saying that drinking or driving is a quagmire here in America.

So doing the same with the reporting of the situation in Iraq is disengenuous as best, deliberate journalistic malpractice or aiding and abetting the enemy at worst.

[BloodSpite]

Darth,

Firstly kudos for your cordialness. In exchange I apologize if I have been overtly snarky. I fear I am a sarcastic ogre by nature and greatly enjoy a good debate. Thank you greatly for staying civil when many others would have divulged in to random spouting of trite useless drivel to insult my heritage for the last thousand years. I thank you.

On to the fray!

I noted your responses, but your responses are summarily in apropos as they are not directed at the fundamental with which I applied them. No matter how you cut it, analyze it, or second guess it, Durbins' comments were wrong, and he ultimately apologized for them acknowledging the fact himself that he crossed the line, intentional or not. He's paid a very tidy sum to represent his country and his people, he needs to do so by example.

A similar tract could be made by my saying "All Irishmen in Bars are alcoholics" and then 20 minutes later adding "But only if they are there every night" We can split hairs on semantics and delivery all day, but the bottom line is the statement was made all Irishmen are alcoholics.

I did note however you never did counter my Code Pink argument (or if you did and I missed it, please show me for I am a blind individual as well as an ogre.)

Also debating the semantics, brings up the very comments, that were made 35 years before (the ones you found laughable) as well as May Lai, the very incident you also mentioned allow me to present to you a segment from Mr Kerry from that interview process.

"Now, I think if you are going to try Lieutenant Calley then you must at the same time, if this country is going to demand respect for the law, you must at the same time try all those other people who have responsibility, and any aversion that we may have to the verdict as veterans is not to say that Calley should be freed, not to say that he is innocent, but to say that you can't just take him alone, and that would be my response to that......
"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown, We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.'

"Equally as important, a volunteer army with our present constitutional crisis takes accountability away from the president and put the people further from control over military activities," he wrote.

Now going a step further, of the men originally charged at Mai Lai, only one was sentenced. Of those 18 men 2/3rd of them were draftee's.

Now going back to the very start of Uncle Jimbo's Post (with which we have wandered so very far off the beaten path) I present to you that not only does now Senator John Kerry feel that all of American Veterans, in fact even civilians of that era, are to be held responsible, and that he does indeed support such a draft as Rangel here has presented to us, but also such a draft would be negligent because I challenge you to find someone of a military background, historical or otherwise, who can show that a Draftee type force is more efficient than a volunteer service.

Unless of course, you wish for more Mai Lai's......

That being said I will leave you now. I agree your being pounded from all sides and I do not see the point of being one more fist in the match as it were.

Good day!

[Darthparrish]

BloodSpite

I too enjoy a good agruement and usually dont shy away from sarcasms and soforth in my responses. (Why else would someone like me post on this site? Its like 50 on 1 or 2 maybe, but its a challenge, and i love challenges.) Also, you dont need to apologize, however since you did, I do accept. But to be honest i really havent been offended by any of your comments (as i usually dont get offended easily)

Anyway back to the discussions:

Yes Dick Durbin apologized, and i actually meant to mention that in my previous posts,(but since i had a lot of issues to think about it must have slipped my mind.) I dont feel he was as out of line as people tried to portray him. He didnt really flat out say that the US troops were Nazi's or Soviets. He just implied the fact that some of the techniques being used were similar to some of those used by the Nazi's (even though the Nazi's had far worse torture beyond that). And that if you were just simply reading through the tortures that you might mistake them for those used by Nazis. Wrong? Probably, but not nearly as wrong as some people tried to twist his words, by making it seem like he made a direct comparison.

About your Code Pink argument, i didnt comment on that, so you dont need to look. The reason i didnt comment on it was due to the fact that i have not researched that topic so i really cant say i know much about it. I really didnt want to comment on something that i didnt have info on. Unfortunatly i still havent had time to read it over, so i'll have to ask you to forgive me on that, and maybe if i find the time, i will go over it and discuss it.

Onto Kerry

I dont agree with everything he says,(nor did you imply that I do), but i just wanted to make it a point that i do disagree with some of his statements. And i wasnt even sure if he was referring to Mai Lei when he talked about the atrocities being committed by US soldiers in Vietnam, But i just wanted to point out that certain atrocities did occur, so his statements obviously werent based on nothing. Where i disagree with him is on his views of the draft. I agree with you that maybe Mai Lei did occur somewhat because of the draftees that were present. Obviously a draft army isnt a professional one. However, i dont think that his statements about responsibilty for the atrocities in Vietnam are meant for all of the military and all citizens of that era. It would seem to me that he meant that everyone that was responsible should be held accountable, not just the leader of the group.

[gene]

God Please do the world a favor and drop all moon bat liberals and rino,s dead today, before they cost us our lives.