US and North Korea morally equivalent?

Posted By Uncle Jimbo

From today’s Washington Post comes this heartbreaking story of the horrible treatment by the North Koreans of 36 US airmen which ought to remind us of the enemies we fight, instead Northwestern law prof Joseph Margulies uses it to try and create a false moral equivalence between the North Koreans and us.

“During the Korean War, thousands of American POWs were forced to endure grotesque and sadistic physical torture. But the downed airmen were treated differently. The senior officer among them was Col. Frank Schwable, the highest-ranking Marine captured in the conflict. “I want to emphasize,” Schwable said later, “that I did not undergo physical torture. Perhaps I would have been more fortunate if I had, because people nowadays seem to understand that better. Mine was the more subtle kind of torment.”

He goes on to detail the treatment of these prisoners which used some of the same techniques that were front and center in the recent debate on torture.

“They were made to stand or sit in awkward and painful positions for hours at a time. One prisoner had to sit at attention on the edge of a stool for 15 hours per day for 33 days. Another time he had to stand for 30 consecutive hours, until he collapsed. Schwable was required to sit at attention every day for almost 10 weeks.”

The treatment, especially its duration is painful to read about and obviously much more so to endure. Margulies seeks to equate the treatment NK gave our prisoners with our treatment of AQ prisoners, but he completely ignores the biggest difference between the two situations. The North Koreans were attempting to get innocent men to confess to a plot to bomb civilians with bacteriological weapons, the men were brave US service members who knew that admitting this would seriously harm our country. Their resistance was epic and done for a good cause. In our interrogation of AQ prisoners, especially the high value ones like KSM, we were dealing with known terrorists who had actionable intel about ongoing plots to really kill civilians. Some how at Northwestern or in Mr. Margulies mind these two situations are the same. I guess in his world a criminal who uses a gun to commit a crime is the same as a policeman who uses a gun to stop one. Actually a better analogy would be a criminal with a gun and a cop with a billy club, as I don’t think any reasonable people believe we treat anyone ever with the unreal brutality of the North Koreans. Then he adds what for many who oppose coercive interrogation, is the clincher.

“At last, exhausted and demoralized, their resistance overcome, they confessed. They all confessed in the end. And they all lied.”

They had to lie you idiot, they weren’t actually war criminals. In the case of AQ prisoners, they don’t have to lie because they are freaking terrorists. They have actual information about other terrorists, terrorist plots and any manner of other useful intel we can use to save innocent lives.

I kinda feel bad for the folks like Mr. Margulies and Andrew Sullivan who seem genuinely appalled by the very thought of one human being mean to another for any reason. But until we live in that progressive wonderland where all is sweetness and light and the milk of human kindness flows through all veins then Kipling/Orwell said it best “Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” In this case coercive interrogation, and we won’t wait for any thank yous from Margulies or Sully for making sure that, oh I don’t know, maybe the Library Tower in LA doesn’t become the next Twin Towers.

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US and North Korea morally equivalent?

From today’s Washington Post comes this heartbreaking story of the horrible treatment by the North Koreans of 36 US airmen which ought to remind us of the enemies we fight, instead Northwestern law prof Joseph Margulies uses it to try and create a false moral equivalence between the North Koreans and us.

“During the Korean War, thousands of American POWs were forced to endure grotesque and sadistic physical torture. But the downed airmen were treated differently. The senior officer among them was Col. Frank Schwable, the highest-ranking Marine captured in the conflict. “I want to emphasize,” Schwable said later, “that I did not undergo physical torture. Perhaps I would have been more fortunate if I had, because people nowadays seem to understand that better. Mine was the more subtle kind of torment.”

He goes on to detail the treatment of these prisoners which used some of the same techniques that were front and center in the recent debate on torture.

“They were made to stand or sit in awkward and painful positions for hours at a time. One prisoner had to sit at attention on the edge of a stool for 15 hours per day for 33 days. Another time he had to stand for 30 consecutive hours, until he collapsed. Schwable was required to sit at attention every day for almost 10 weeks.”

The treatment, especially its duration is painful to read about and obviously much more so to endure. Margulies seeks to equate the treatment NK gave our prisoners with our treatment of AQ prisoners, but he completely ignores the biggest difference between the two situations. The North Koreans were attempting to get innocent men to confess to a plot to bomb civilians with bacteriological weapons, the men were brave US service members who knew that admitting this would seriously harm our country. Their resistance was epic and done for a good cause. In our interrogation of AQ prisoners, especially the high value ones like KSM, we were dealing with known terrorists who had actionable intel about ongoing plots to really kill civilians. Some how at Northwestern or in Mr. Margulies mind these two situations are the same. I guess in his world a criminal who uses a gun to commit a crime is the same as a policeman who uses a gun to stop one. Actually a better analogy would be a criminal with a gun and a cop with a billy club, as I don’t think any reasonable people believe we treat anyone ever with the unreal brutality of the North Koreans. Then he adds what for many who oppose coercive interrogation, is the clincher.

“At last, exhausted and demoralized, their resistance overcome, they confessed. They all confessed in the end. And they all lied.”

They had to lie you idiot, they weren’t actually war criminals. In the case of AQ prisoners, they don’t have to lie because they are freaking terrorists. They have actual information about other terrorists, terrorist plots and any manner of other useful intel we can use to save innocent lives.

I kinda feel bad for the folks like Mr. Margulies and Andrew Sullivan who seem genuinely appalled by the very thought of one human being mean to another for any reason. But until we live in that progressive wonderland where all is sweetness and light and the milk of human kindness flows through all veins then Kipling/Orwell said it best “Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” In this case coercive interrogation, and we won’t wait for any thank yous from Margulies or Sully for making sure that, oh I don’t know, maybe the Library Tower in LA doesn’t become the next Twin Towers.

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