New Abu Ghraib Photos!

Posted By Blackfive

And unlike the media trying to restir up hate with photos from 2003 (but, hey, cartoons are off-limits!), these Abu Ghraib photos are from the last six months:

ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (Nov. 1, 2005) - Tabark Addul Rahman (Tabitha). Tabitha was a patient at the Abu Ghraib hospital from Oct 28, 2005 to Nov. 2, 2005. Picture taken by Maj. Brad Wenstrup 344th Combat Support Hospital.

ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (Oct. 30, 2005) - Maj. Lisa Flynn MD provides oxygen to Tabark Addul Rahman, aka Baby Tabitha. Flynn the general and vascular surgeon for the hospital at Abu Ghraib was primary physician for the baby. Photo by Maj. Brad Wenstrup 344th Combat Support Hospital.

ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (October 30, 2005) - Maj. Jose Rodriquez MD (L) and Maj. Brad Wenstrup Chief of Surgery [r] perform surgery on a detainees' leg while Maj. Marie Cadet RN looks on.

BAGHDAD (January 13, 2006) – Soldiers from the 3rd Brigade, 6th Iraqi Division and Company C, 1st Battalion, 87th Infantry, 1/10th Mountain Division hand out rice, meat, blankets and patriotic Iraqi flags Jan. 13 to Abu Ghraib citizens. (U.S. Army Photo by Capt. Shonnel Makwakwa, 1/10th MTN Medical Planner)

CAMP LIBERTY, Iraq (Jauary 9, 2006) – French foreign national, Bernard Planche, who was kidnapped Dec. 5 while working as an engineer in Iraq, was found by U.S. Troops as they patrolled a neighborhood in the Abu Ghraib area of western Baghdad. The Soldiers took him in, provided him with care, and began contacting his relatives and home country. Here, he talks with Soldiers from the 1/10th Mountain Division’s 2nd Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment, A Company, who were in charge of his rescue (U.S. Army Photo by Pfc. Jason Jordan, 1/10th Mountain Public Affairs)

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Oh for chrissakes! Here we go again! The "naked dude pyramids" return! Oh good so they just "suggest" torture, but don't actually offer any proof of torture. Well that's comforting. You'd think that would be enough. But no... the mere suggestion of ... [Read More]

Comments

[Joe Schmo]

Ya right, justify complete disregard for human dignity and morals. Yes, justify your obscene comparison of anything close
to this an all other proof of Abu Ghraib being obscurded or doctored by anyone but who, the guy who took these and was there??? For these very photos and all others from the original DISC of pictures are proof that this is a war of culture and some sick comparision of who is superior in this human race, and us proving them inferior, which is something we as Americans NOW will not suceed in if this is what WE?? represent. This subculture of that hides behind Ultra-Conservative views that really in reality are as sick and deviant as what they protray is the enemy of our American MOrales are being used on a rountine basis by the military INTELLIGENCE?? These higher ups, Ultra-Conservs running the BUSH Administration that run this show (our military operations) seemed to dwell in mad undercurrent of emotionless psychological terrorism (ie. Fake Terrorism-911, phony iconisms Ossama, and blatant propaganda WMD'S, germ warfare via bird flu) that resembles some Apocalypse NOW...drug induced moral neuroses they have sunk into, in which they feel they can manipulate our world's views into what THEY THINK is just and right, not the actual needs of a Government running a country, but a Govenrment runn by big oil, money, pharmaceuticals to numb and anything to make personal profit for the Coporate INdustries that run OUR GOVERNMENT....God Save Us....please ....are you there???!!!

[indolene]

Joe, lay off the pipe.

Good pics, Blackfive!

[NavyspyII]

Joe, stop smoking the lead-based paint chips. They're bad.

Great pics Blackfive, nice to see more of the good that has been done in Iraq, despite the bes tefforts of the MSM.

[The Ugly American]

Hope you don't mind I added an excerpt of Joe's comments to my post linking back here. It seemed appropriate.

[Rich Casebolt]

Hey Joe -- if "Corporate INdustries" run our government ... how could Sam Walton, Michael Dell, and others come from nowhere and steal customers from those same "Corporate INdustries" in vast numbers?

That's the real reason Leftists hate Wal-Mart ... it gives the lie to their paranoid delusions of invincible corporate dominance ...

... just as these pictures give the lie to their assertions of a monolithic American brutality being imposed at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.

[NOTR]

I was so glad to find the pix you published. I blogged yesterday about the 60 more Abu Ghraib photos shown down on Ozzie TV last night. I expect we will be seeing the blow back from that soon enough.

[TheQ]

Has Joe seen any of the pictures of Saddam Hussein's mass graves? You know, the ones with the women and children in them? Joe, you and your socialist/communist/wacko-liberal friends are either living in an alternate reality, or you are complete idiots. Please stop talking. Begin speaking again only when you and your kind have something meaningful to say. And lay off the pipe, it affects your ability to reason.

Way to go, Blackfive! Keep up the good fight!

[Maggie45]

Thanks, Matt, as always.

Poor Joe.

[Melissa]

Excuse me, but it's about damn time!!

The other day I tried to get some updated info on AG, but some 23 pages into google, all I could find was the 'stuff' from 2003.

Our guys and girls need to get out of the shadow of years past and get some recognition for the good they are doing!

Thanks Blackfive!!

[SGT Tom]

YAY, pictures of where I live... Hoo-ahh. Abu G. is always mentioned with the words "notorious" or "the infamous" in front of it. Thanks for posting some pics that show who's actually here. Honestly, detainees here get better treatment than they would in an American Prison. I happen to know this because I have worked in both systems. Does that make stacking naked detainees in a pyramid ok? No, it doesn't. But neither do the "abuses" that happened here at Abu rectify the fact that Saddam killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 130,000 people here at Abu Ghraib prison. How does that fact always seem to get lost in the sauce? Ok, I guess that's enough. SGT Tom out...

[al]

Excellent pics Matt. Somehow, like all the other good news coming out of Iraq, I'm pretty sure this will never be shown in the MSM.

Hey SGT Tom - thanks for all you do.

Stay safe, al

[jordan]

Here's why I don't think we'll see a blow back on this. They're still on the cartoon riots. After this they have to do the British soldiers beating up "youths" riots. I think they'll skip over these pictures and consider them having been sufficiently rioted against the first time. There will probably be something new that requires rioting down the road, and they don't want to burn out.

Americans and the west have just hit a wall when it comes to indulging these demonstrations and "rules for publishing". We are sick and tired of demented and depraved people's feelings being held as superior to our own by our own governments. I don't want their hearts and minds; I want them defeated, conquered, pacified and dominated. (Just the terrorists of course.)

I'm sick of "understanding" their mindset, history and grievances. Let them worry about America's perceptions and tolerance limits for a change. U.S. public support for aggressive military action, higher DOD budgets, and more weapons development has never been higher due to these riots, although you'll never see that on CNN.

[tommy in nyc]

Well Blackfive is totally correct that the good work our brave young and old troopers is way underreported. That fact aside the real culprits who did allow the travesty unfold at Abu Gharib fully up the chain-of-command haven't been punished. Until that happens this sad occurence is going to continue to be in the public spotlight. Go after the shitbirds and praise the well over 95% of our heroic soldiers,sailors,airmen and marines.

[jordan]

Imagine a more difficult job than following the rule-breaking guards and taking over the prison as a new unit. New guards at AG had alot to overcome, and they did it hands down, making their country proud.

[Chris]

Hey, well I guess the American media is feeling a little backseat. What with the Danish cartoons and the Brit abuse. The public was apathetic about the hunting accident, ya gotta get back to the forebrain of the haters. What better to do that than 3 year old photos.
I hear all the jingoistic "journalistic integrity" BS hurled by the media and wonder...what would Cronkite, Murrow and Pyle have thought of their beloved 4th estate....

[Theresa, MSgt, USAF (ret)]

Thanks B5 for showing the "otherside" of the story. Well said Jordan. I to am sick to death of hearing about the mindset of the moronic muslims. Their special media status is beyond tiring. Its time for them to either move into the light of the 21st century or be bombed back to the stone age.

[Angel]

X-cellent piece dude!..I trackbacked via The Real ugly American..these Abu G pics should b plastered all over the media..sigh..but well..we all know when that will happen..what was that Don Henley said bout an Eagles reunion ..when Hell freezes over..defrosts and refreezes?

[M. Jamil]

Rest assured that no pictures are going to make your snouts any less ugly than they are. You are the ugliest face in the history of civilizations that ever existed on this earth. Your history from the slaughters of Red Indians to Viet Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq is not going to be enhansed by an Abu Graib baby picture. Relax and shut up.

[Chris]

(ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (October 30, 2005) - Maj. Jose Rodriquez MD (L) and Maj. Brad Wenstrup Chief of Surgery [r] perform surgery on a detainees' leg while Maj. Marie Cadet RN looks on.)

Did you ask our prison guards why did the detainee's leg need surgery??

[Pat]

Helping one baby and fixing a leg does not make up for the destruction of Fallujah. How many lives were destroyed? Were these people involved in 9/11? NO

[Rich Casebolt]

Pat ... were the people we fought in Fallujah terrorists?

YES.

This is a war on terror ... a war on those who use such tactics to further totalitarian rule ... not merely a war of retribution for 911.

BTW, the innocent had ample time to leave Fallujah ... and from what I understand, almost all did.

Blame the destruction of that city on those who chose to foment terror from it ... not those who acted to put an end to the terror.

Your tit-for-tat, only-go-after-those-directly-involved-in-911 approach is a big reason we did nothing about these depraved thugs for years ... until a SUBSET of them bit us hard on 11 Sept 2001.

You want an end to the destruction of lives? Then protest the terrorsts with an equal level of outrage as you direct against America ...

... or better yet, demand that America live up to the ideal of "no better friend -- no worse enemy", and act even more vigorously to end the lives of those who see peace as a form of weakness, suitable for deceptive -- and lethal -- exploitation.

The survival of our highly-interconnected, global civilization depends upon just such an approach. Our refusal to acknowledge this and act accordingly, over the last 40 years, made the price in places like Fallujah far higher than it needed to be.

[Rich Casebolt]

M. Jamil --

Both we and our Native Americans learned from the error of our ways, and stopped killing each other.

When are the Islamofascists going to learn that lesson ... or are we going to have to continue our efforts to stop them from killing and subjugating others?

When we left Vietnam, they got re-education camps.

When we stopped our support in Afghanistan, they got the Taliban.

In both cases, things got worse when we left.

[Rich Casebolt]

Chris ... how you do know that leg wasn't injured before he arrived there ... perhaps by an IED?

Maybe you should wait for the facts before making such implications ... though if you're depending upon the MSM to deliver them, Hell will be able to host the next Winter Games after that.

[Lenny the Liberal Idiot]

WE ALL KNOW that somehow Halliburton is profiting from this!!! When is Michael Moore going to a do a documentary on the Cheny attempted murder incident? have you heard Alec Baldwin's expert analysis of the Cheney crime? When will the Grand Jury indict? Doesn't this prove we need gun control?

Should Cheney resign? Should Bush resign, or will we just have to impeach him? Isn't that a tragedy that Mother Cindy dropped out of the California Senate race? But I agree she is more effective as an activist anyway!

Abu Ghraib! Abu Ghraib! Abhu Graib! Why don't they stop torturing those poor people who were only in the wrong place at the wrong time? NO WAR for oil! Of course they are mad because we have been stealing their natural resources for more than 50 years!

Free John Linde! He was just a young idealist practicing his new Muslim religion in Afghanistan! He should be released, Bush should apologize, then Halliburton should pay reparations to Linde's family!

Bryant Gumbel, RIGHT ON! Winter Olympics=racism because more African_Americans are not in them. But anyway 14% of all medals awarded must go to African-American Olympians because that is only fair. Oh, you might say (you bigot!!!) how is that possible if there aren't any African-Americans in an event? Simple, you racist! You bring in African-American athletes and just assign the medals to them? What is so hard to figure out about that?

Are you volunteering for the Hillary '08 campaign? I am! This time we'll win, even if Bush does try to steal another election! So remember, vote for Hillary! IT's FOR THE CHILDREN!

[Lammerstraat]

...while Maj. Marie Cadet RN looks on.

I understand, the scene must have been similar there two years ago - only some harmless tortures took place, but on the floor above; unfortunately the doors were closed, so that the good guys below while doing the mild-hearted job, really couldn´t recognize what happened above...

Did you know, that even during WWII in Germany a "Wehrmachts-Untersuchungsstelle" (a special branche of German regular forces, working in stiff competition with the disliked SS) investigated against suspected G e r m a n war-criminals and, believe it or not, brought not less of them to military justice?

Why can´t y o u simply accept what happened and be clearly ashamed of all these things and bad characters, who brought discredit upon the American forces?

[M.Jamil]

Rich Casebolt

You stopped killing Indians because virtually there was no more to kill. You were forced to leave Viet-Nam after you murdered 3 million Vietnames, destroyed the infrastructure and wiped out the plantation world there by chemical weapons. (just surf the internet and you will find out). When Hitler occupied Europe, the resistance was considered a liberation movement. When Bush and his savage armies occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, the resistance is called terrorim or Islamic terror, if you like. American filthy hands were also brought into Chili in support of a murderer like Pinochet.

I don't think you want me to contiue with all the filth American were, still are and will be spreading all around the world.

Abu Ghraib is just the true face of freedom and democracy Americans are bringing to the Islamic world. Yes, there is a lot of hatered towards Americans, but this hatered was created by your Government and your sadist soldiers. Sooner or later, like in Vietnam, American murderers will leave our world with their tails between their legs.

[Rich Casebolt]

"You stopped killing Indians because virtually there was no more to kill."

Then why do we have thriving Native American communities all over America today?

While I do acknowledge that we did things wrong in that area, you make it sound like it was all one-sided ... ever consider that the motives of SOME Native Americans were less than pure?

"You were forced to leave Viet-Nam after you murdered 3 million Vietnames, destroyed the infrastructure and wiped out the plantation world there by chemical weapons."

No ... we CHOSE to leave Vietnam, due to a lack of political will to decisively engage the Communists who replaced us with re-education camps ... and in some cases, mass graves.

We thought we had a peace agreement ... but when the NVA took the offensive in 1975, we cut off funding to the South -- assuring its defeat.

Always be sure, in your casualty and damage estimates, to subtract the terror and carnage that the terrorist/totalitarian enemy generated on the behalf of "their people". I think that, when you do that, both your damage claims and that 3 million number will shrink greatly. You may want to subtract those found in the killing fields of Cambodia, as well.

"(just surf the internet and you will find out)."

I can surf the Internet and find a lot of lies, as well as truth. If one is not wise enough to determine which is which, you get the garbage you are spewing.

OTOH, I have seen the rise of totalitarian terror in my lifetime, heard the voices of its victims that were fortunate enough to escape it, and have also seen the only effective defense ... the decisive actions taken by this President and his predecessor Ronald Reagan. Their approach is consistent with both history, and human nature ... totalitarian evil must be decisively confronted, or it will spread.

"When Hitler occupied Europe, the resistance was considered a liberation movement."

Yes -- because its objective was to repel totalitarian rule and replace it with freedom.

"When Bush and his savage armies occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, the resistance is called terrorim or Islamic terror, if you like."

In Afghanistan, we actually worked WITH the resistance ... first against the Soviets, then against the Taliban. It was your terrorist heroes who assassainated the great resistance leader Massoud in Afghanistan ... not us.

In Iraq, the resistance is called terrorist because it is just that ... true freedom fighters do not target their own people, or behead people to make a point. That runs counter to basic human nature.

"American filthy hands were also brought into Chili in support of a murderer like Pinochet."

As opposed to Allende, who was reaching for the TRULY FILTHY hand of the Soviets, whose totalitarianism killed tens of millions? Of course, my preferred course of action would have been a direct military response ... but you would have called us "imperialist" for doing so, had you been there. Unfortunately, our leaders were far too sensitive of such critcism to act decisively to stop totalitarian evil ...

... until now.

"I don't think you want me to contiue with all the filth American were, still are and will be spreading all around the world."

Then why does the world seek to come here, even crossing our borders illegally?

Then why does so much of the world seek our foreign aid ... and our culture?

Then why, when disaster strikes, we are EXPECTED to be the first responders?

Then why, when the world finally decides that war IS the answer to a situation, our troops make up the bulk of the fighting forces?

Then why doesn't OPEC immediately cut off all oil exports to America?

Looks to me like the world doesn't share your view, Jamil.

"Abu Ghraib is just the true face of freedom and democracy Americans are bringing to the Islamic world."

If that is the case, then why did millions of Iraqis support our recommended course of action by voting? I think they know what the true face of freedom is ... far more than you.

You may want to ask the mayor of Tal Afar about the true face of freedom, too:

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/004185.html

OTOH, if we were as evil as you say we are, we would have sent a swarm of neutron bombs to precede us. The FACT that we did not grind the people to powder in Afghanistan and Iraq exposes your statements for the falsehoods they are.

"Yes, there is a lot of hatered towards Americans, but this hatered was created by your Government and your sadist soldiers."

Actually, the hatred has been fomented by the dictatorial leaders (political and theological) of the Middle East ... it keeps them in power, instead of seeing their heads separated from their bodies.

And, where's the love in the actions of such groups as Hamas and Al Quada, who are willing to brutally murder those who oppose their totalitarian objectives?

By opposing America, you stand in the way of putting an end to the hatred ... you stand in the way of true peace.

"Sooner or later, like in Vietnam, American murderers will leave our world with their tails between their legs."

Don't bet on it ... we have learned from Vietnam, Iran, Lebanon, and Somalia, where we saw the cost of turning away from decisive confrontation ... and/or ending our involvement prematurely.

If we do leave "your" world (and I wouldn't be surprised if you are hypocritically sitting in "my" world making these statements) before the hatred that permeates it is doused by a freedom that respects the inalienable rights of "all men" (as our founders put it), it will only be if this Administration is replaced by leaders stupid enough to believe your falsehoods.

There will be MANY working against just that, in 2006 and 2008.

We won't be fooled again ... and for your sake, you had better hope we are never fooled again.

Otherwise the totalitarians may take you down, before we can get there to help you.

[M.jamil]

Caracas, Venezuela. Feb 10, 2004 (Venezuelanalysis.com).- On his weekly live radio and television show, “Hello Mr. President”, Venezuelan head of state, Hugo Chávez, announced that his administration has obtained proof of direct funding from the United States government to virulent opposition groups in Venezuela seeking to oust him.

How many honest presidents have been ousted by your CIA and money, and how many of those presidents were replaced by puppets-traitors? By the way, your only true friends in the world are the scum of the earth-the TRAITORS.

I was in several Indian reservations all over the USA, but if you still think that reservations are a thriving civilization, I suggest you visit them again, because you don't know what you are talking about.

As for Chili: Allendi was ELLECTED by his people in a democratic vote. you had no business to stick your stinking nose there. Oh, yes, nothing is democratic enough unless it complies with the interests of Israel and those of the USA.

[Rich Casebolt]

M. jamil -- American "democracy" is more than just elections ... it involves respect for individual freedom. Something Allende's Soviet "friends" would discourage, had their "friendship" grew ... right along with discouraging further elections as "unnecessary" and "a threat to the revolution".

That relationship made it our business ... just as it made Nicaragua our business.

Chavez is just another socialist despot on the road to totalitarian rule ... worse than Allende, in my book. What he did to the critical elements of the press in Venezuela is an image of things to come ... and is something that should concern you.

It is the totalitarians that are traitors to humanity ... and they USE people like you to spread their cancer, by manipulating your own idealism and good faith to stop free men from taking the action needed to stop them. They, not the President, are the liars ... they promise Utopia, but just replace the old boss with a new, worse boss.

Keep this in mind -- the reason we coddled dictators is because we listened too much to those who cried "IMPERIALIST" at every direct use of American force ... and not enough to reason.

This was the true error on America's part. Read my lips ... WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CODDLING DICTATORS -- WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN DIRECT, DECISIVE AMERICAN MILITARY ACTION TO NOT ONLY SOLVE THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT COMPELLED US TO DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE ... BUT TAKE THE DICTATORS DOWN AS WELL, JUST LIKE WE DID WITH SADDAM!

And as for those reservations ... while they have their problems, just as our urban neighborhoods, those remaining probelms are within their capacity to solve ... and are still a darn sight better than, say, Iraq under Saddam, or the Gaza Strip.

And while we're talking about the Gaza Strip ... the problems there are also capable of being solved by the Palestinians who live there ... but they have this little obsession with eradicating Israel that keeps getting in the way of progress.

You want to stop American intervention ... then tell your Middle Eastern "brothers" to clean up their act.

Totalatarian rule and terrorism have NO PLACE IN MODERN CIVILIZATION ... regardless of any alleged grievances against free people on the part of those perpertrating totalitarian rule. No grievance can justify such actions.

[Lammerstraat]

# In Afghanistan, we actually worked WITH the resistance ... first against the Soviets, then against the Taliban. It was your terrorist heroes who assassainated the great resistance leader Massoud in Afghanistan ... not us.

Is this really true?

Didn´t once the CIA by itself (and adviced by Saudi-Arabian and Pakistani secret services) bring the Taliban to power?

You don´t believe that?

Listen: Time before these crancy "Koran-students" settled behind the border on Pakistan territory and no one took them really seriously. But after the Soviets were gone, the situation countrywide was characterized through permanent trouble and fighting among one with another tribe and warlord (a tradition in that country since the days of Alexander the Great).

So what? Who could bring public peace and harmony into the scene (even might it be the calmness on a graveyard)?

Yes, the Taliban! That exactly has been the Saudi´s and Paikistani´s friendly recommendation to the CIA. But what was the CIA´s mission when consulting their secret partners? Who under all circumstances wanted law and order over there and for what reasons? It´s easy: those guys, naturally, who intended already since a long time to transport the gas-ressources from the Caspic-Sea down to the Indian-Ocean by pipeline (and from there overseas to the US). No alternative solution existed - on the right side China, left side Iran, north Russia.

And also north, but a little bit lower in the caspic-countries, meanwhile american businessmen (and military-advisers, spotting American uniforms and the American Army´s reputation) drank together as good friends with blood-handed dictators and didn´t listen, so to speak, to the screaming to be heard (if you wanted), from the cellars below where the democratic opponents were imprisoned and tortured.

Because nowadays you hardly can realize a gas-pipeline under circumstances of the wild, wild West, like once upon a time the Union Pacific Railways in America - you do need a strong political power backing your specific interests. And if you are from the big business, you will still sleep well, even if this guarantee comes from the Taliban, won´t you?

The Taliban namely may have felt thankful after for american assistance, but on the other hand they were not so eager to see the western devils and Allah´s enemies drawing that pipeline thru their territory, just to make sinful profit. Bad luck...the Pakistani and Saudi-Arabian colleagues did not tell that to the naive CIA guys before.

Conclusion: "Enduring Freedom" was not started because the Taliban had anything to do with 9/11 (and, it´s true, even Bin Laden has been time before the good guy over there, with whom american businessmen shook hands regularly). Not at all, the main reason was to blow-up and push aside again those ungrateful partners - and get the pipeline at last.

What did Norman Mailer say after 9/11: "If you realize what it all brought to the american right you may even imagine that it (9/11) was their own doings!"

And a high ranked CIA-Officer pointed out (on German TV) concerning the Bush-administration: "These characters around Bush, nearly everyone of them, do not only stand very close to the oil-business but also to the scene of organized-crime. This means first of all Dick Cheney - in a way you can say, they are nothing but a pack of racketeers!"

(It was not so surprising, that Bush surrounded himself very soon after 9/11 with somekind of a "personal secret-service", mainly dearly paid lawyers who buttered him up with "informations" he preferred to listen to, instead of the serious facts the CIA put very early upon the table; and later in the public debate - it was exactly the CIA which was blamed by the administration for "false and misleading informations")

I think it´s time to wake up and realize what´s going on in the Country...

[Blackfive]

Lammerstraat - the blogosphere has this crazy idea called "fact checking". Look into it.

Your claims (baseless as they are) make you sound like a lunatic. Put down the stein...and provide proof (legitimate sourcing).

[Twig]

Interesting debate;just found Blackfive today.
Although I don't agree with many things our present leadership does.
There many people in all parts of the world who are always going to deride anything America even takes part in.
Of course am sure you know there are the good,the bad,the ugly & inbetween on both sides.

People hear(and see) what they want & disregard the rest.
Am sympathetic to your loosing battle.
Will be checking up on you in future.
Fred

[Lammerstraat]

Okay it´s a theory - but seems to be quite plausible.

Furthermore neither I expect you singing small now and revoke your position because of my brillant argumentation - nor is it my intention to stone Americans.

Apropos Americans - what do you think is the benefit America got from Bush´s worldwide one-man horrror-show as Superman in the ring? Everybody feels thankful everywhere and loves America like they never did before? Here in Germany I must have overlooked that...

Latest news say, even American church organisations, presbyterians, baptists etc. condemned Bush´s policy during a congress held in Brazil these days, specified him as an unchristian lyer and furthermore pointed out they shouldn´t have been so silent before on what happened, but should have warned earlier instead.

Anyhow, I simply find that theory more convincing in any case like the story of subversive hitech-plans, drafted exactly by middle-age fairy-tale-figures in the caves of a pre-historic country. You know as well as I do, that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi-Arabia and not a single one from Afghanistan. If instead the reasons for engagement should really and simply have been, that they refused to extradite Bad Bin - couldn´t there be other solutions like just exterminating a whole country for that? What I want to express has nothing to do with sympathy for the Taliban or terrorists, but look how many human beings, hundreds maybe even thousands of innocent children among them, died during these disastrous bombing-raids (in Afghanistan a n d in Iraque)?

For what - where is Bin Laden now? Did justice take place, is security guaranteed from now on? And if (partially) meanwhile, so surely not because the American Airforce externminated completely more than twenty villages in Afghanistan during "Operation Anaconda", killing all what was living in there before, including Fritz the Cat, grandpa in his armchair and sweet baby in the cradle.

This I was told by a German KSK-Hauptmann; his duty and that of his platoon was, he said, driving the Taliban-fighters into the direction of in a distance remaining American ground troops - where they should been "exterminated" then by the Americans.

And he continued: "But the Taliban did not do us the favour, they fought like lions instead and suddenly disappeared to nowhere! After that the Americans, in my opinion just as a revanche for that shameful failure, ordered B-52 bombers and a very large area, including nearly twenty villages was wiped out without any warning and with all the peasents living there with their families. I saw it later - for the next hundred years not a single flower or animal will live there any more. Like the fields of Verdun in World War I."

And the rest - what about the CIA-officer´s statement, paid from Bin Laden´s wallet or so? Or a "lunatic" too? I saw it on German TV and heard it word by word; also I saw video sequences showing American army officers sitting together at the table with their colleagues in Usbekistan.

[Rich Casebolt]

Lammerstraat -- you make Jamil sound downright logical.

Let me tell you the benefits Bush brings us.

Instead of viewing America as a exploitable paper tiger -- with justification to do so -- they now fear us, and are compelled to engage us at times and places of our choosing ... not theirs.

Instead of being able to disrupt our civilization with impunity, they are having their evil dreams disrupted by American ... and British, and Polish, and Danish, and other varieties of ... steel.

One result: the best Al Quada could send to disrupt the 2004 re-election of their greatest enemy was ... a VHS tape!!

Instead of continuing to believe the 40-year-old lie of the Euro-American Left, that we are somehow beyond the need for decisive, violent action to stop those who would perpetrate totalitarian evil, our President tells the truth ... that totalitarianism and terror must be decisively confronted ... and acts from that basis.

You, as a European, should be particularly sensitive to this ... in that the totaliarian threat from the Soviet Union did not end until Ronald Reagan confronted them.

My great uncles -- ordinary farmers in Missouri -- put up with Minuteman missile silos as next-door neighbors for DECADES, living in the nuclear bullseye of the Cold War standoff to protect your deluded butt. President Reagan's actions led to the end of that situation ... something I will always be grateful for. Yet, people like you villified him for acting to do that.

You want to know how greedy people really act? Look at the UN and Oil-for-Food -- the truly greedy take the path of least resistance. War is anything but that.

If we really wanted to steal the oil, we'd have stayed there in 1991 ... and sent over a swarm of neutron bombs before us, to clear out the people while leaving the infrastructure intact.

The fact that we did not do that ... that we did not grind the Kuwaitis or Iraqis to powder, in 1991 and/or 2003/4/5/6 ... and instead burdened our own people with both cost and risk, while returning the control of the oil to these people, gives the lie to your assertions of greed.

[M.Jamil]

US Government-apponted envoys to enhance the American picture arownd the world are resigning shortly after they have been appointed.
He who does not see the very ugly face of America is either a blind man or a total idiot.

[Lenny the Liberal Idiot]

Hello to my friends M. Jamil and Lammerstaat! You sound a lot like us Leftist Liberals here, and like my good friends Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore!

You guys are right on! When American troops accidentally kill civilians and call it "collateral damage", we know better, don't we? That's murder! But when the freedom fighters of Iraq target innocent civilians, kidnap and behead people, why that's okay! We are really okay with that, in fact we don't even talk about it. Just like Sadaam put almost half a million Iraqis in mass graves. But we like that, don't we? Because we never talk about that either! We instead accuse the U.S. of murdering thousands of Iraqi children by imposing economic sanctions on Iraq! Yes, we are so clever, aren't we?

You see, the Leftists, Liberals, Socialists, and Communists in the U.S. (plus the traitors in our Congress and the Hollywood Idiots) are sure that once you guys have won the Jihad, you'll remember them, your friends, and how they did everything they could do to undermine the U.S. and help you! And you'll take good care of them, putting them in positions of privilege. You will, won't you?

[Lammerstraat]

Rich,

fine, let´s wait and see...

Did I say America steals oil? So far as I can see I only wrote they wanted to transport it thru Afghanistan (and therefore took the chance and occupied the country, - which by the way wasn´t really a case of heroic military action, right? Success can result sometimes just by good chance - and a weak enemy).

But before you get too angry, let me say something in the categories of ancient Hollywood frontier-movies, joking a bit: I understand your position well, principally, and therefore you could so to speak count on me fighting side by side with you inside the barricade of waggons, if really necessary. But with the little objection on my side, that I perhaps would think by myself while loading my old musket, that these indians out there also are not completely wrong and not only inhuman devils. Could additionally even be in such a situation, I would think inwardly I should better use my bowie-knife against those who brought us - except the indians - into that dirty trouble, next time I meet them somewhere.

That´s the difference between our specific points of view.

And I must say I can´t follow your idea, because it´s not very logical to me, homeland security were now on a higher level just because "they" (who exactly, the dead babies in Fallujah? - sorry) learned to fear America. I suppose the fact that Bad Bin could finally not bring more to the front like vsh-tapes, as you say, has not so much to do with Airforce-planes dropping smart-bombs abroad but with the job instead FBI, CIA, police-departments and other security-branches are doing well at home.

On the whole 9/11 was a matter of crime and not of war, and therefore police detectives and secret service agents were quite more in charge from the beginning like B-52 pilots. Wonnabe emperor Bush´s wargames until now only increased hatress everywhere and don´t fortget too the increasing number of young Americans who make it home in a body-bag meanwhile.

Someone should buy Gunship-George a good book on antique roman history, so he could read something upon a real imperator, learning important things. His name was Tiberius, successor of Octavianus Augustus and an expierienced field-marshal before in Germania´s dark woods, where he by himself once swung his sword against the Teutons (different to Georgios Maximus nowadays, he?).

No sooner had he become emperor of the Imperium Romanum after Augustus was dead, he called back immediately his nephew Germanicus from the latter´s (successful but brutal) revenge-raids in the hercynic woods and argued that it would be a much better solution "...leaving the barbarians to their own quarrels..."

For the tranquility of all the patriots and homeland-heroes in their cantinas he let Germanicus have a triumph march in Rome highly decorated but forced him after that to retire. That was it, Germanicus` expedition had been the last offensive operation by Roman forces for centuries - from that time on Roman military doctrine was strictly defensive, only defending the borderlines!

And think: the destruction and downfall of Quintilius Varus` three shiny legions (ten percent of the Roman forces, and not 3.000 but 30.000 died!) inside the "Teutoburg Woods" years before Germanicus` revenge-operations started - surely ment for the Romans in that time what in our days 9/11 was for Americans!

That battle too has been an attack by "undercivilized" "terrorists" and "barbarians" - and even a "Bin Laden" was on the scene: Armin der Cherusker! (the Teutonic winner of the Varus-battle).

But Tiberius was wise and expirienced enough (as a former military leader) to come to the right decision. And, by the way, although severely offended by him (like America by Bin Laden) the Romans did not h a t e Armin; on the contrary, they treated his captured wife and son with respect and the Roman author Tacitus only wrote positive upon him, calling him "...without any question the liberator of Germania!" And continued respectfully: "He stood up against Rome not in it´s early years when it was weak, but when it had reached the top of it´s power and glory!" About Varus Tacitus only wrote with scorn: "...so he sat there on his chair proudly playing the judge in a matter as if he was in Rome!"

Sounds different to that, what you say, doesn´t it?

Pax Romana begun, the limes was built and two hundred years later a typical roman citizen let´s say living in Lugdunum (Lyon) in Gallia (homeland of Asterix and Obelix), would not even know how a Roman soldier looks like - simply because he never in his life saw one, and his father and grandfather before the same! Real Roman legionaires only could be seen far, far away on the frontier - and inside the Imperium only ancient "classical" types of "soldiers" were to be seen on paintings or as statues. Just imagine you today only could see pictures of "american troopers" on tv or in magazines with uniforms and equipment from the civil war - and would think therefore that´s how they really look out there anywhere. Sounds strange, but similar to that was reality in that time for Roman citizens living a peaceful and civil daily life. On stage in the theatres the "Roman soldier" as a typus (gr. "topos") did not appear as a heroe - no, but as a joker, an uneducated rough but harmless redneck who was always drunk and at loggerheads with someone. And for Roman young boys the most popular gameplay was not "Legionaire and Barbar" or something like that but - j u d g e instead!

However that may be the Roman Empire did not rule the antique world with arrogance or mainly by military power - but with tolerance, integration of cultures and religions and by it´s own ability to adapt to other civilizations (In the 2nd century the Roman Army changed completely taking over uniforms, weapons, even ensigns and other equipment from the Sarmates - a "barbarian" tribe, part Huns part Teutons). Once a Persian king sent a letter to the Roman Emperor, in which he expressed how they both "...are the two eyes watching over the world to guarantee welfare and security for everyone everywhere..!" An so it really was...

In Egypt for instance Roman soldiers rode on camels, wearing a burnus and helmets with oriental ornaments on and also oriental scimitars on the belt (you can see that in museums in North-Africa or Spain). They protected Egyptian peasants against predatory beduines and their comrades at the Rhine-border did the same duty for Gallian settlers against Teutonic tribes. Furthermore Roman legionaires built aquaeducts, roads, city-walls, were stationed as police-forces (stationarii, beneficarii) and the little villages in front of their castelllums (canabae, vicus), where their families, merchants etc. lived developed during centuries along the Rhine river to big cities e.g. Bonn (Bona), Mainz (Mogantiacum), Regensburg (Castra Regia), Trier (Augusta Trevorum), Wien (Vindobona) or Köln (Colonia Agrippinensis).

And they were well respected everywhere(except by the Zelotes in Judaea), one reason why they seldom really must fight - they were not unpopular like American troops today nearly everywhere. Think about why....

[Lammerstraat]

# ...And you'll take good care of them, putting them in positions of privilege. You will, won't you?

Hey Lenni,

I´m so sorry, but I don´t know what you want to explain with that...

And, can´t you understand: you want success of American foreign policy, or not?

Okay, so let me assure you, with that ideas you stand for succes will never come but more and more trouble instead worldwide - and for America too, believe me! What I have to advice (e.g. with that historic comparision I made above) has nothing to do with upcoming victory of totaliarism, capitulation, doing nothing against terrorism, a weak or descending US etc. etc.. Nuts, there´s only one question: right or wrong?

From my view you and others here are neither bad guys, nor "stupid white men" or something else - you are simply wrong! Patriots but uneffective ones. And perhaps not well informed in some aspects...

[Quintus Octavius Germanicus]

I see Lammerstraat you've been reading up on Roman History. A small correction, to start with. The Roman Legion was typically about 4500 troops plus or minus. So three legions destroyed in the Varian disater would have been less than half the number of 30,000 you cite, correct?

I'll bet if you were living in Roman times you'd be bashing the Romans, claiming they were arrogant oppressors and unpopular everywhere. But for now they suit your purpose as an example.

Regarding the Varian disaster, which was a betrayal by the former ally Arminius, yes the Romans wanted revenge. Likely the reason why they finally called off Germanicus and established the border where they did was probably more because at that point it wasn't worht spending any more money chasing after Germanic tribes, rather than that Tiberius was suddenly filled with love and respect for the Barbarians who had betrayed Rome. Kind of like the building of Hadrian's wall in the U.K. There was nothing more to be gained.

Now do you think for one minute that if Arminius had set fire to the city of Rome that the Romans would have ever stopped seeking revenge until Arminius, his tribe, and his DNA was removed from the planet? No, they wouldn't, and that's where the analogy to America's 9/11 falls apart.

I also object to your generalization that American troops are "...unpopular like American troops today nearly everywhere.". Really? You mean like in Iraq, where Iraqis come up to Americans and tell them please do not leave before their country is stabilized? (yes I have friends who served there and they tell a much different story than what you get from the hate-America media sources) Like in Indonesia, where after the recent Tsunami, the U.S. Navy was first on the scene and saved countless lives? Like in the Phillipines right now, where after the natural disaster that just occurred (mudslide) another U.S. Navy ship immediately went to the area and began providing assiatnce? Maybe what you really mean is just that the rest of the world wants America's help and largesse, but many don't appreciate it.

If America hadn't liberated Europe and kept the Soviets at bay until they collapsed, you'd be goosestepping around or speaking Russian right now. Sorry to burst your bubble, but America has done more good for more people than any other nation in the history of the planet. America isn't perfect, and nobody is saying it is. But show me a country that has opened its arms and its wallet more than America and I'll admit I am wrong.

I'm waiting...

[Quintus Octavius Germanicus]

POST PART 2

I also object to your generalization that American troops are "...unpopular like American troops today nearly everywhere.". Really? You mean like in Iraq, where Iraqis come up to Americans and tell them please do not leave before their country is stabilized? (yes I have friends who served there and they tell a much different story than what you get from the hate-America media sources) Like in Indonesia, where after the recent Tsunami, the U.S. Navy was first on the scene and saved countless lives? Like in the Phillipines right now, where after the natural disaster that just occurred (mudslide) another U.S. Navy ship immediately went to the area and began providing assiatnce? Maybe what you really mean is just that the rest of the world wants America's help and largesse, but many don't appreciate it.

If America hadn't liberated Europe and kept the Soviets at bay until they collapsed, you'd be goosestepping around or speaking Russian right now. Sorry to burst your bubble, but America has done more good for more people than any other nation in the history of the planet. America isn't perfect, and nobody is saying it is. But show me a country that has opened its arms and its wallet more than America and I'll admit I am wrong.

I'm waiting...

[M.Jamil]

But when the freedom fighters of Iraq target innocent civilians, kidnap and behead people, why that's okay!

Who said that is OK? How many people were beheaded in Iraq before the occupation? and who carries out those murderous acts? according to a European Parlament Committee Israeli Intelegence "Mosad" is behind most of the terrorist acts in Iraq, accordingly, a US Army report stated that 400 tonns of explosives disappeared from various American ilitary camps in Iraq!! How could a single bullet disappear from an American Army store?? unless of course it was "meant" to disappear.

[Rich Casebolt]

Lammerstraat -- here is the basic error you are making.

This is not a war of revenge -- for if it was:

> We would not have cooperated with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan ... and with the new Afghani government.

> We would not be allowing a popularly-elected government to take power in Iraq.

> We would not be assisting these nations in building their infrastructure.

> We would, instead, have already dropped millions upon millions of tons of weapons -- both "smart" and "dumb" -- upon these nations ... or, as I have mentioned before in this thread, used neutron bombs to "solve" the problem while leaving their wealth intact.

In fact, when you look at how the war is being conducted on the ground, America looks a lot more like your noble Romans ... and less like your charactures of its President.

We are perceived as arrogant, only by outside observers like yourself as you sit in your easy chairs, and perhaps by our enemies as they mentally feast upon their greed and fanaticism ... not by those who are in direct contact with our warriors -- and the enemy we face with them.

Quintus Octavius Germanicus pegged it well ... as I did, in an earlier post to Jamil which is worth repeating to you:

"Then why does the world seek to come here, even crossing our borders illegally?"

"Then why does so much of the world seek our foreign aid ... and our culture?"

"Then why, when disaster strikes, we are EXPECTED to be the first responders?"

"Then why, when the world finally decides that war IS the answer to a situation, our troops make up the bulk of the fighting forces?"

"Then why doesn't OPEC immediately cut off all oil exports to America?"

Looks to me like the world doesn't really share your view.

Just as with Jamil's assertions, the FACT that we did not grind the people to powder in Afghanistan and Iraq exposes your assertions that this is a war of "arrogance", for the falsehoods they are.

----------------------

As for this being best handled by "law enforcement" and not military action ... you need both. The problem with law enforcement alone is that it has limits in its reach -- for example, do you really think the Taliban would have agreed to extradite OBL? No ... they supported him. So given that, what should we have done ... arrrest the Taliban?

That, is an act of war ... not law enforcement.

It is also primarily a defensive strategy -- in part, because of those limits in its reach. If you can't reach into Afghanistan and arrest OBL, or reach into Iraq and bust Saddam, you do the next best thing to stop the terror they foment ... you investigate anyone approaching your border.

Problem is, effectively defending the borders at EVERY approach from terrorism requires a level of intervention that is incompatible with the freedom of movement needed to support both an open society and a global economy ... and possibly even the civil liberties of that society's citizens.

So, we are faced with a choice ...

... continue with a defense that has proven itself to be as ineffective as the Maginot Line (keep in mind, American and other leaders DID TREAT TERRORISM AS A LAW-ENFORCEMENT MATTER until 2001 ...)

... convert to Fortress America, depressing the world economy and possibly stomping on your and my rights ...

... or we go beyond law enforcement, and make the price of fomenting terror not worth the "return on investment" by reolutely and decisively confronting it whenever it appears with military force -- not wanton slaughter, but a precision-guided ruthlessness that embodies the American ideal of "no better friend -- no worse enemy!"

That is what this President has done ... and it has stopped terror in its tracks. Had we continued with the law-enforcement approach, the success of the terrorists would have continued to escalate after September 11, 2001 ... for they would have still had the safe havens in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere to find the exploitable weaknesses in our defenses in a safe environment.

Show me one time in history where a totalitarian leader with expansionist tendencies was stopped by diplomacy ... or law enforcement ... instead of resolute and decisive military confrontation (not necessarily war -- the Cold War was won without firing a shot, but it would not have been without the confrontation of the Soviet Union by Ronald Reagan).

In order to be effective, all efforts of confrontation must be credible ... and our law-enforcement (and even the limited military) efforts were not perceived as credible by our enemies, until this President started ignoring the Euro-American Left and started credibly confronting our enemies.

Chatter all you want about our "arrogance" ... it is getting the job done.

As we say, either lead, follow, or get out of the way ... but if you're going to lead, you had better do what works.

[Proud]

I dont know about the photos. There is always another side to tell. But a website that glorifies war and violence with your dumb ads for the "FOOTPRINT IF THE AMERICAN CHICKEN" shirts, must be run by some ignorant one sided war mongering fools.

[Rich Casebolt]

No, Proud ... war is not being glorified by running those ads, IMO.

The stupidity of the so-called "peace" movement is being illustrated by them, instead.

The true ignorance is exhibited by those who adopted that "footprint" as their sign for "peace" ... when the "peace" they refer to too often ends up as the peace of the graveyard, or the slave.

That ignorance stayed the hand of reasonable men for the last four decades ... allowing both thugs like Saddam, and fanatics like bin Laden and those in the Iranian leadership, to sink deep roots.

Uprooting them now, after all these years, is costing us a lot more in blood and treasure, than if we had not listened to the "peace" movement and confronted these thugs back then ... yet the "peace" movement doesn't seem to learn from the consequences of the policies they advocated, and instead continues to promote what did not work, while villifying what historically HAS worked ... confrontation.

The cowardice of these chickens cost millions of lives and billions of dollars ... and it has come home to roost, to the detriment of all.

[MajMike]

nice job, Matty, me-boy-o.

it's good to see that Jimbo isn't the only one to create train wrecks on your blog.

good pix, thx

[Lammerstraat]

Hi fellows,

(if I am allowed to say so) unfortunately for today I am very short of time, so I cannot answer how it would be necessary in a serious matter, but I shall be back in a few days (but please, don´t understand that as a threat ;-)

Just short:

Rich,

# That is what this President has done ... and it has stopped terror in its tracks.

Oh, oh, Rich - I promise you to think it over, but I´m not so sure if Madrid and London really would have happened in case of another policy of the American administration before; and also I think such a different policy would not have ment the downfall of the United States of America.

I´ll tell you honestly my feelings: yes, momentarely (and during the last years) I was strictly against America - and according to my choleric charakter this means too, hmm, rather aggressive (but it´s not so different with your emotions, isn´t it?) But when I say "against America" naturally that does not mean against American people (would be silly because a great number of relatives of mine and my wife are living in N.Y./Manhattan and Miami)- I always, even when full of anger remarked in debates, that always the best and most intellligent criticism of American affairs and situations came from the US itself (Bob Dylan, Norman Mailer, Susan Sontag,yes Michael Moore, Woody Allen and some other famous artists someone here declared as "Hollywood idiots") By the way, the best movie I saw concerning this was "Wag the Dog" maybe you found it dreadful and unpatriotic - I think that picture in some respect was very much on the point.

Time ago I was an engaged admirer of "Kaiser Bill" (Bill Clinton) as I called him with affection and respect - still I feel the same but I had to fight hard here in German discussion rooms that time during the liberation of the Kosovo and the combat against Milosevic SS-Guards. I shall not forget how he once sat there among displaced poor Albanian women and children in his shirt-sleeves, just like a normal guy and very hearty told them: "I promise you - you shall get back to your homes in a very short time!" Look, that brought tears into my eyes, yes, and was really noble "Roman Emperor"-style in a sense as I talked about yesterday (and that´s why I called him loving "Kaiser Bill").

But if I try and try - I cannot find the same within George Bush´s behavior, too much only big-mouthed declarations, too much arrogance, too much lucid acting like a movie-star (and too many dead people meanwhile and too much - unnecessary - military brutality)

....................................................

MARCVS CAELIVS LAMERTIVS AD QUINTVS OCTAVIVS GERMANICVS AVE

hey, is that really you? Still angry about uncle Tiberius` decisions, just when you was underway to wipe out ultimatively all these lousy barbarian Teutons, hehehe?

To say it again: no time for a qualified discussion now, sorry, but will be continued later if you want.

According to Varus´ legiones: such a legion was composed of

1. More or less 5.000 regular legionaires. In the Roman army every branche of the service, centuria, cohortes, manipel etc. did n o t include a steady number of fighters, that could vary, so e.g. a centuria (centus=100) also could consist of only 80 or possibly 120 legionaires. Similar to that e.g. a "COH. IX Sarmatica" must not at all mean sarmates were doing service there in fact - maybe only hundred years ago or so sarmates were the first troopers when that platoon was installed.

2.About 200 cavallerists ("equites legionaris" - were counted separately)

3.About 3.000 - 4.000 or even many more auxiliar-troops (cohortes, numeri). These were the ones, who especially armed (e.g. as archers, horse-mounted light-brigades etc.) were normally active first in combat; the regular heavy armed legionaires were lead to combat only if necessary, normally remained as reserves in the background. In critical situations they were in charge to guarantee the final succes with their percussive power.

4. Artillery incl. gunner-crews (mechanical ballistic ordnances, shooting arrows, stones or bullets)

5. Baggage-train and other followers (physicians, surgeons, veterinaires, sanitarians, black-smiths and other craftsmen etc.)

Though Varius legions were to march back after service into winter-camp in Vetera near the Rhine river, they also carried along with them administrative officers, jurists, merchants, women and children etc. Remember that Varus was not only a general but mainly procurator of the province Germania Superior and indeed already prepared to march back to Vetera. He thought his military operation against an as renitent suspected tribe in the northern districts could be done easily with one hand on a short side-trip and he had the situation well under control. Therefore he failed not to send all the non-combatants ahead to Vetera before he tunrned aside into battle.

A severe error and many harmless red-tapists and other non-soldiers had badly to pay for it, sometimes more as the soldiers must, if they were killed in action; this concerned mainly the lawyers - because of Varus awkward kind of administration especially these guys were hated intensively by the Teutons (see what Tacitus wrote upon Varus, sitting arrogant on his chair...etc. ). When they were captured the Teutons cut them off the tongue shouting:" Now you viper cannot hiss any more!"

Tacitus describes many other tortures etc. - it was a big catastrophe for the Romans, and as I wrote already yesterday surely followed by similar emotions in the public like after 9/11 in America. But I also remarked how nevertheless the Romans respected "Bin Armin" as a noble enemy - and not declared him to be an inhuman monster.

That was typical for them (and an important aspect of their success as imperialists as I claimed), they always tried to understand the other side (in Judaea even the emperors portrait was removed from the standards, not to provoke the yews) - but the Americans thereto seem not be so talented!

[Rastus Q MoFo]

There's one main reason behind all the criticism, all the hatred, all the bashing of the U.S.: Jealousy. The U.S. economy drives the economy of the world. The English language is the international language of commerce. American technology and innovation is second to none.

You all secretly wish you'd had the good fortune to be born in America, instead of some backwater, has-been, or sandbox shithole.

Much like the Romans, who brought civilization, organization, law, and economic prosperity to their conquered lands and allies who cooperated, it is the same for allies of America. Those who crossed the Romans or caused too much trouble found out to their detriment what happened when Roman patience ran out. Just ask the Jewish zealots of 70 A.D.

Why don't you just admit the above and stop the bashing? Stop the hate. By cooperating we can all make a better world (after we exterminate the pestilence of terrorism, that is). Work with America, and it will work with you. Attack America, and you will be destroyed. The Jihadists will not prevail, they will be sent to Hell which is waiting for them because they target innocent civilians; they are not man enough to stand up and fight against their opponent.

[Rastus Q MoFo]

Here's a picture that perfectly describes Liberals:

http://www.humorhour.com/pictures/default.asp?picture=96

[Lammerstraat]

Dear Rastus,

hate? US-bashing? please read again what I wrote about Bill Clinton - and, correct me if I´m wrong: don´t many Americans argue the same way as I do? What´s that now, they are already born in US - are they jealous too and do they hate their own country? Or do you mean only those who share your special point of view are worth to be called Americans?

[Rastus Q MoFo]

I was referring to those of you outside the U.S. that are bashing the U.S. But we do have our internal boll weevils, rats, and traitors.

So Bill Klinton (we spell it "Klinton" here)sends U.S. forces to bomb the hell out of the Serbians after the Serbians did nothing more than try to protect their country against terrorism from Muslims (yes we were also told in the beginning that "ethnic cleansing" was taking place perpetrated by the Serbs. This was later found out to be a lie). Innocent Serbian civilians killed in the process. You are happy, that's all GOOD.

George Bush invades Iraq to take out Sadaam, who was responsible for the murder of more than 500,000 people (and those are just the ones in the mass graves that have been found). Sadaam had and USED WMD, and now the evidence is coming out that Sadaam was working with Al Qaeda, did want to attack the U.S. with them, and that the weapons were moved pre-war to Syria and Lebanon with the help of the Russians. Now 25 million people no longer live in fear of Sadaam. But that's all BAD, Bush is just awful. Uh-huh.

Except for the U.K., Denmark and others, many EU nations did nothing to help get rid of Sadaam. Of course we know why, corruption. Are you proud of that?

[Lammerstraat]

Rastus,

I faced that kind of argumentation (concerning Kosovo) already before in German debates:

1.) In Kosovo the US-Army stopped (from my view) Hitler-liked ethnic cleaning, but they were completely wrong as others said - the dictator himself including his stormtruppen were right instead.

(But with another special focus: who was not worth to get assistance that time, as some discerning individuals claimed? Right - lousy dirty Albanian camel-drivers, second class people so to say. But with Mr. Milosevic, that was quite a different matter, didn´t he look like us in his pretty uniform? Wasn´t it easy to identify ourselves with him and his followers?)

2.) In Afghanistan and Iraque Uncle Sam again fought against a brutal regime and another dictator (and, very bad, also against innocent civilians). But this time things were more clear and easy to understand for arm-chair strategists: now the fight appeared to be right with no objections - and what do you mean, could that have something to do with the simple fact, that this time the enemy in both cases was n o t so easy to compare with us and our wonderful high-class civilistation?

In other words: imagened Saddam would have been a western-style dictator like Milosevic, but his opponents and victims instead, among others those held in his prisons would have been only "lousy arabs" and camel-drivers, like the Albanians in Kosovo - could it probably be you and others today once again would argue the US-Forces are fighting the wrong side?