Me and My Muslim Friends Neighbors

Posted By Blackfive

At first, I was so damn angry after the experience you are about to read that I didn't trust myself to write something coherent. Then, I calmed down and figured that it was an anomaly. I wasn't going to write about this experience, but, with the recent comments coming out of the Organization of the Islamic Conference in Malaysia, I thought that I might be able to shed some light on what we are up against in the world...

One of my friends is a guy I met in grad school a few years ago. He's a lawyer that practices IP law and was pursuing a MS in Computer Science to further his knowledge of programming. He is brilliant. Went to U of Chicago undergrad, then Northwestern University Law. He works for one of the biggest law firms in the world. He is from Pakistan. His name is Masood.

A few months ago, Masood invited me to his brother's birthday party. Since I love Middle Eastern food and knew his family pretty well, I went. After the party, we went to a bar on the city's northwest side where a lot of Pakistanis hang out (and, yes, they drank alcohol).

We played cards for awhile and then moved back to the bar. The course of our conversation eventually turned from sports and business to politics and religion - and it went badly. Almost immediately, the Israelis were blamed for everything from SARS to the price of bread.

Masood's younger brother just came right out with what everyone of them was alluding to...: "The f-cking Jews controll everything."

Me: "Come on. Do they control your family's restaurant? Do they control your alderman? Mayor Daley?"

Masood's older brother: "They want nothing to do but destroy us. My restaurant does well inspite of their attempts with the Mayor and lobbying the Congress to discriminate against Muslims. You Christians just never see it."

Masood, surprising the hell out of me, was nodding his head in agreement: "Just like 9-11."

Me: "What?"

Masood: "Just like 9-11 where the Mossad flew planes into buildings."

WTF?!

Me: "You can't really mean that, Masood. Really?"

Masood's older brother spoke again, pointing at me: "You are just too stupid to see. Americans are puppets of the Jews."

Me, ignoring Masood's idiot brother: "That's really ridiculous. You are telling me that Al Qaeda is controlled by the Mossad?"

Masood looked me right in the eye: "No. Al Qaeda didn't bomb the buildings. The Mossad did."

I thought, Hey, Asshole, Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the murder of all those innocent people!

By then, all thirty patrons of the club were looking at us. And I wasn't getting very warm smiles at this point. I thought about my chances of making it out of there if I really said what I was thinking.

I believe Masood knew what I was pondering because he didn't let me think too long: "Maybe you should go, Matt."

Me: "Yep. I'll see you."

I left without a problem. No one followed me out, and I don't know what they said after I left. I never talked to Masood after that.

What I can tell you is that experience scared the hell out of me. How the hell can a guy be so well-educated and smart and successful in America and be so close-minded at the same time?

How the hell can we ever convince people like Masood that "the Jews" aren't the problem - that his blindness is the problem? And if we can't convince the likes of him, how can we reach countless millions that don't have Masood's liberal education, facility with English, or access to our mediums?

Simple answer: I don't think we can penetrate that kind of cultural and religious brainwashing.

Which is why, when I saw this article on the Malaysian Prime Minister's hateful words, I wasn't shocked. Not in the slightest.

It really is us against them. Us and the Israelis and a few others against 1.6 billion zealots.

Get used to the idea.

-------------------------------------------------

Update - 10.20.03 2:39 PM CST: James Taranto's Best of the Web has a few pieces related to this topic. Slide down to the title 'He is such a Jew' and just read the first few paragraphs.

Update - 10.30.03 8:00 AM CST: The discussion continues via a commenter's (Mahim) blog and my latest post on the subject.

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Comments

[margi]

I have heard my husband say very much the same thing. He spent a LOT of time before, during and after Desert Shield in "Undisclosed Middle Eastern Countries" and "Not Saudi."

He says this is the Reverse Crusades. I believe him.

[Eric]

I know that you are right about the idea of them being "brainwashed"..in a way, the countries which are muslim and AREN'T "Islamic States" - such as Bangladesh, don't have the same ideas about religion. Pakistan is an Islamic State, and the gov and church control the people in a way that we can hardly imagine. My experience with Bangladeshi Muslims was very refreshing, and enlightening...all of the ones that I met, took their religion seriously, but it was THEIR religion, and they were tolerant of YOU and YOURS...

[The Commissar]

Frightening story. I linked to it.

[Blackfive]

Eric, I mostly agree with you. It's not because I don't believe you. It's because this experience really freaked me out. When I was a soldier in Central America or the ME, I used to have to "read" people for a living. I thought I had Masood figured out. I was wrong.

I work with a muslim from India, too, who I believe wouldn't buy into that b.s. (I know him really well and even went out drinking with him last Friday), but after witnessing such a huge level of bias, I am not as sure as I used to be...and I won't be as surprised.

One reason I didn't post this experience at first is that he reads the blog. He knows about Masood, too.

[Ross]

I've never understood the whole "Jews control everything" argument that many Muslims believe. It's admitting that the Jews are so much smarter than anyone else that they can do what ever they want. If they are so smart to control everyone, or at least everyone else is to stupid to stop them, and the "Christian" armies can mop the floor with them, what do the Muslims do well? Many people who become extreme racist have never really accomplished anything in their lives, and coincidentally the Muslim culture hasn't contributed very much art, culture, or science in a few hundred years. It's a self-esteem problem on a cultural level.

[hln]

Chilled my blood, Matt. Geez.

hln

[grayp]

The most telling point of your experience is that when you pressed them for a tangible example, they resorted to 'fantastical thinking'. I have encountered this time and time again even in the most innocous circumstances. We live next door to Saudis affiliated w/the embassy in D.C. They gave me a lovely gold necklace. And they went to extraordinary efforts to impress upon me that it is 22 carat "which can only be found in Saudi Arabia, you can't find it in America". I worked in the gem/jewelry business for awhile, and believe me, you can find tons of it here.
Don't even get me started on the dog.

[Masood]

Your family will be murdered, praise allah!

[Blackfive]

Banned. Praise allah.

BTW, this coward is not the Masood from the post.

[Bill]

What you ran into is that in the Muslim world, an individual is not really allowed to have their own opinions about religon. A Muslim can get into some very deep trouble by publicly voicing an opinion different than what the Imam gave last Friday. This is similar to what the Christian world was like a few centuries ago. If you were a Christian Spainiard during the Inquisition, stating that the Jews should be left alone would get you a one-way trip to the cemetary. It takes a really brave member of the Muslim community to speak-out against this kind of behavior, because in effect they would be ex-communicating themselves.

[Patriot]

Islam is a virus, a virulent and incurable disease that causes planet-wide failure among its victims. These victims then obsess about various groups that are the "cause" of this failure, and create psychotic death cults to attack their alleged oppressors. The battle's been raging for 1,300 years, recently inflammed by the accident of oil-wealth...

[Blackfive]

Good point, David. Thanks for the insight.

[inkgrrl]

What Bill has said is certainly true - and without an exception that currently comes to mind, Islamic culture is overarchingly a *face* culture, meaning that the preservation of *face* or personal/family honor is more important than any truth under the sun - so the possiblity of public disagreement is low.

But it's been my experience that even when pressed in a one-to-one, private conversation, a Muslim who was raised in a Muslim country, perhaps then receiving an advanced scientific education in the West, will resort to specious ad hominem arguments denouncing Jews as quite possibly even fucking with sunspots in order to oppress Dar Al-Islam. I've run into it time and time again here in the States - seemingly open-minded men and women with whom I can have calm, logical conversations about anything else (hijab, women's rights, local politics) go all foamy about the mouthparts when Jews are mentioned. I spent some time in Lebanon and had similar conversations there (yeah, I like to poke big dogs with sticks) but with the exception that most Lebanese (both Christian and Muslim) were more moderate and reasoned in their viewpoints - they were willing to acknowledge that the Lebanese had screwed Lebanon up much worse than the Jews ever could. In Muslim countries, the *fact* that Jews are the breathing manifestation of Shaitan is something taken in with mother's milk, like the concept of gravity is taken in at a child's first tottering attempts to walk. The Quran isn't even clear on the subject - it holds a recounting of Mohammed's flip-flopping opinion on the Jews he did business with: when business was good, the Jews were brethren and people of the book to be respected, etc.; when business was bad, they were vile and immoral dogs. Literate religious teachers are free to promote their own interpretation to their mostly illiterate students, despite the Quran's primary injunction to believers to be able to read for themselves.

Urk, I should stop now. I'm gonna start ranting...

[F. Covington]

Here is a link from the Lebanese Al Bawaba where someone with an anglo name- more credible to them I guess- claims it's all the fault of the Illuminati.
http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=261490&lang=e&dir=news

[Robert Crawford]

"seemingly open-minded men and women with whom I can have calm, logical conversations about anything else (hijab, women's rights, local politics) go all foamy about the mouthparts when Jews are mentioned."

That's because the LATER (thus more current, and thus superseding) portions of the Koran are the ones that are anti-Semitic. Until Mo' had enough people around him to make him safe, he was sweetness and light, tolerance and kindness. Once he had enough followers to ensure his safety, he turned on everyone else -- Jews, Christians, pagans -- who had ever done him a good deed.

[R]

This story reminds me of an experience in college when I had a public discussion with the head of the MSA (Muslim Student Association) at the school, who was an American of Pakistani origin (lets call him 'M'). This was at an elite North-Eastern University (i.e. with a large Jewish population). Being neither Muslim nor Jewish (nor Chirstian nor White nor Semitic nor American) I thought I was in a good position to be objective in the discussion, which was to revolve around the status of Muslim women in 'permissive Islam' - i.e. in the US.

The conversation quickly steered to Jews, which was especially interesting since the number of Jewish Pakistanis is somewhere between zero and zero. I was amazed at the amount of vitriol in M's tone, and his willingness to shout "Of course you can never trust any Jew" in a public setting, thumping his fist on the table we were sitting at. I remember how the music in the coffeeshop seemed to mute itself in the stunned silence that followed. True, this was before 9/11, but it caught me severely off-guard. I grew up with a lot of moderate Muslims, and I was unprepared for that type of hatred. Any attempt to rationalize with M failed miserably, and I have never looked at Islam the same since. If M is the kind of leader that Muslim students in AMERICA choose, than things have gotten pretty far already.

[another David]

I'm afraid I've had similar experiences to the one recounted in the post. Including among American-born Bosnian Muslims, whose families one might think would be already quite moderate and European, even before they came to the USA.

I've also seen similarly intense Jew-hatred among very well-educated Orthodox and Maronite Christians -- a bit of a dirty little secret that doesn't get much press at all.

[Jeremy]

I would wager that a good number of Europeans believe this as well. Shortly after 9/11 I was shocked by comments from a Brit. So I started reading the Guardian, and more importantly, their message boards. Pretty much the same sort of stuff, only they were careful to use "Zionist" instead of "Jew"

[nicolas]

What scares you are words.
In France the experiment has been taken up a bit further.
A big muslim community has been living there for a long time.

What is the result of living in a first class country with free education, free health, developped social rights?

3 years of burning synagogue, jews being beaten in the street.
I saw a family being spat on in public because they were jews.

I have many educated muslim colleagues, phd's, master's, and they hate jews as well.
I received emails justifying theorically the violence that were made outside against jewish people.

The scary thing is: that may be only the beginning.

Nicolas (non jew)

[DANEgerus]

I live 4 blocks from two Mosques... the ones frequented by the 'Portland 7'...

I do so understand as I have to drive by one of them every day.

[dmc]

Having lived in Saudi for a while, I experienced many things
that were very nice about living in a thoecratic,muslim state.
I enjoyed them for where they were at.

Look at the Muslim calendar. What year is it now?

It should be in the late 1400s if I remember correctly, and
that's about correct when compare to western standards
of thinking. No judgement, just an observation.

[blaster]

Doesn't anyone remember Mike Hawash?

[jbfour]

It's worse than that. It's not just Muslims. Two years ago I was at my daughter's college volleyball match, sitting with one of the other dads (not Muslim by name or appearance.) This was about a week after 9-11 (during which one of my daughter's former HS teammates had been killed on flight 93.) Talk naturally turned to recent events, and I sad something about how awful it was, and he looks around and leans toward me and says something like, "I heard how all the Jews were told to stay away from the WTC."

[Junkyard God]

I wonder if these people celebrated the "magnificent 19" last month?

[Dan McWiggins]

Don't ever let your defense of the Second Amendment slip, folks. You'll need those guns someday if these boneheads get a hint of power. Masood and Co. make Himmler sound like a moderate. If I was Jewish in America, I'd drop the Dems so damned fast light wouldn't be in the race and I'd be learning (if I wasn't already trained) how to use firearms to protect myself. Those Muzzys aren't kidding...and there are more of them coming all the time.

[CharlesWT]

"Here in Iraq every citizen was provided -since the early days of the regime- with a whole set of lies that gradually became the foundation on which you would build your perceptions of the world outside.

"Consequently you end up with two channels, a “channel reality” that is off the air most of the times and “channel rhetoric” a mixture of self-denial, conspiracy theory [apologia] and propaganda.

"Of course we shouldn’t blame Saddam and his lies based tyrannical regime only, this phenomenon has its roots deep in our cultural/religious history". —G. in Baghdad (http://geeinbaghdad.blogspot.com/2003_06_01_geeinbaghdad_archive.html#105660185095042569): Wednesday, June 25, 2003

[11A5S]

I had dinner with one of my Iranian friends not long after 9/11. She is proud of the fact that her family has been secular for four generations. Yet there she was, telling me that the Mossad flew the airplanes into the twin towers. No Arab could because they were tempermentally unsuited for such a thing. They just aren't logical enough. Aren't planners. I tried arguing back on the basis of "the Arabs aren't dumb" with no effect. Finally I said, "Let's postulate an Arab Alexander the Great, a guy four or five standard deviations to the right of the mean. Such a person has to exist statistically, right?" She grew embarrassed and asked to change the subject. I did.

A few weeks after that, I was listening to local talk radio. An American born Pakistani with a perfect native accent called in. He said, "You should hear what my parents and their friends talk about when no Americans are around." His parents were doctors. He then went on to describe conversations a lot like what Blackfive wrote about.

I don't feel hate toward people like this. I do fear that we can never integrate them into a civil society. They will never be citizens. It's like having a coyote on your property. You can ignore it for a long time, but if it starts gnawing on the pets or livestock, you have to take action.

[Lawrence]

Welcome, everybody, to the world of paranoid politics.

The interesting thing to me is that so many of you are obviously startled, or angry. This has been going on for decades -- no, centuries. And the paranoid style in politics is not confined to the hatred of Jews.

If you have a close look at the extreme left in US politics, you find exactly the same patterns of thought and ideology. It's not a matter of hating Jews, it's a way of seeing the world and explaining the how and why of events.

Those of you who have access to a Pacifica FM radio station in the USA may find, if you listen to the political news and talk shows, a perfect example of paranoid thinking. (I assume these wackos are still at it, broadcasting amazing rubbish, although I am not living in the USA and have not tuned in for well over two years. They may have eased off.) One of the favorite topics on these stations is the "proof" that Bush and his family are Nazis. Evidence: an ancestor of G.W.B. invested in some German companies in the 1930's.

An easier way to get a taste of the insanity that passes for political commentary and understanding would be to pick up any of the many books by Noam Chomsky. This lunatic is a prof at MIT (linguistics), but has mush for brains when it comes to understanding the workings of the real world. His hate-drenched, harebrained explanations for why things happen all blame the USA for everything; just like a crazy Muslim blaming Mossad for 9/11, Chomsky sees all evil as coming out of Wahington DC. He is the darling of the far left. If you think I'm wrong, read Chomsky's DEFENSE of the genocide in Cambodia that Pol Pot ordered (start with Google, then descend into the sewer of political commentary). Chomsky is a drooling cretin, but he writes a lot and entertains his leftie audiences with a bewildering blizzard of "facts," charges, bitter denunciations of the USA, and explanations of otherwise puzzling events.

That's the value of paranoia in politics: it explains things that overwhelm, stun, dismay and frustrate people. The Nazis "explained" their nation's defeat by pointing to Jews, and that provided a simple answer for people who needed one. The sheer complexity of real life is too much for some folks, and that is where the Hitlers and Mahathirs (the nut running Malaysia) come in: they can tell you who is behind the mess, who is causing your misery, who is the real troublemaker.

(Here's a very recent quote from Mahathir, a fellow who does not get nearly enough exposure in the mass media as the hate-monger he is: "They (Jews) invented Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong...." He has been accepted as a national leader for 22 years, when the international community should have flatly refused to have anything to do with him at all.)

Another nutcase who distorts, lies, fabricates and fulminates in paranoid style: John Pilger, a "reporter" who presents all manner of crazy theories and explanations for how imperialist neo-colonialist globalization and the repressing of The Third World are proceeding at the orders of International Capitalism.... Pilger has some books out there, too, and reading his nonsense is an experience that will make you want to take a three-hour bath.

While not all of this rubbish is hatred of the Jews, all of it is parallel to what those deluded and deceived Muslims believe. As long as any significant group of people on the face of the earth think in these ways, we are in for endless trouble.

For an excellent discussion of the history, development, flaws and methods of paranoia in politics, with some material devoted to hatred of Jews, see a book by Daniel Pipes: Conspiracy (ISBN 0-684-83131-7)

[Mike]

Matt, you've got to make this weblog more ergonomic and readable. The messages here are excellent but it is very cumbersome to read.
Please consult Charles at littlgreenfootballs.com and ask him for some help with your weblog design, is my best advice.

I'll keep you on my faves list now though. This was a good article and you should email it to charles and others as well.
INSTAPUNDIT I am sure would love to post this as well and that would send thousands instantaneously to your site.

Regards,
Mike

[sarah]

I know of similar experiences related to the Army. It's chilling that there are soldiers who are invited to our military training courses from other coutries who have these ideas. My husband was in an American military course with soldiers from Egypt who thought that 90% of the American Congress is Jewish. It's scary to think that these people are training militarily with us!

[Pete Nelson]

I looked a bit into Dr. Makow and the Illuminati society conspiracy article that F. Covington linked to. It's very disturbing stuff, and I wrote some about it on my blog. If Muslims are looking to people like Makow to get their information, we're in for some hard work to get them to see the real world.

See http://home.comcast.net/~pete-nelson/journal.htm if you'd like a bit more on this.

[Michael Jennings]

I would wager that a good number of Europeans believe this as well.

I'm in Europe and I think that European opinion is more moderated than that. Sure, there is a lunatic fringe that will believe anything, and there is plenty of anti-Semitism, but there isn't widespread belief in nutty theories about how Mossad destroyed the World Trade Center or similar, at least not amongst non-muslim populations. (Whereas a substantial portion of the muslim world really does believe this). What there is in Europe is widespread anti-Americanism, and lots of of people who will argue that America did things to provoke September 11, and widespread belief that George Bush is a trigger-happy ignoramus. This isn't good, but it isn't so bad that Europeans are completely immune to rational argument, as I think is the case with much of the muslim world (and which to me indicates that there is no option but to fight). You don't have this insane fantasy world that Blackfive describes.

I think a fair portion of this may be denial - Europeans who don't want to believe that the people who hate America's civilization hate them too. And heaven forbid that such a thing should occur, but if there was a major terrorist attack on Paris, or Berlin, I think you would find that most European opinion would shift pretty fast.

[Scrutineer]

Matt, I understand why you left the bar, but not why you've never again spoken to Masood. If he likes and respects you enough to invite you to his brother's b-day party, you may be one of the only sane, informed people with any chance of opening his eyes. Someone like that will never be persuaded by the news he reads, but he might be persuaded by a friend.

Btw, I've enjoyed that 'cubicle hurdles' video for months, so it's neat to be able to put a name to one of the faces.

[Ratherworried]

Great article and great discussion. I'll be back.

[Mark Connors]

Your experiences closely parallel the experiences I have had with most, but not all, Muslims that I have met over the years. My most chilling experience was with a Palestinian-American (he would absolutely loath the American hyphenation) some time ago. I have forgotten his name, but not the conversation, so I will call him “Mike.” Mike and I were employed as engineers at medium sized electronics firm located north of San Diego. Considering myself a moderate Republican with an interest in foreign affairs, I was very curious to get Mike’s viewpoint about world affairs in general and about the Middle East in particular. So one day we get out to lunch together—a 3-hour lunch that I even to this day I remember very well. The conversation quickly turned to the Middle East and this soft-spoken man, who never once raised his voice or used profanity, proceeded to inform me in a polite manner that:
1. America was the MOST EVIL nation to ever exist in human history.
2. Americans, whom are hopelessly brainwashed, falsely believe that America’s prosperity is due to their hard work, etc when in reality it is due solely because America has raped, pilloried, or stole wealth from EVERY nation on earth. When I asked why HE was here, he replied why shouldn’t he be here enjoying your fruits—there are not really yours in the first place.
3. All Arab governments were Western puppets. He hated Arafat because he was too conciliatory. When I asked him what should be “done about the state of Israel” he surprisingly would not answer that question specifically but left no doubt as to his belief that the Jews did not have a right to live there.
4. He would never become a US citizen. He, of course, had a green card and stated he was concerned that there might be a limited number of times that you could re-new it without being “forced” to choose citizenship or leave the country. He was married and had several children, and lamented the fact that before the birth of one of them they were unable leave the country so one of his kids was stained with US citizenship.
5. When I spoke of Syria’s Assad massacring the entire city of the Hama, he expressed genuine surprise that I had even knew about it considering “how tightly controlled the US press was.” Nevertheless, according to him, I did not really know what was going on in world particularly the Middle East (i.e., “stupid American”—although he did not use that term). If I really wanted to know the truth, I should consult with him—because he did know the truth.

When the lunch ended I was close to speechless. I had been an undergraduate at Berkeley so I was familiar with all sorts of anti-American tirades, but never have I heard such deep-seated hate expressed so calmly in my life. Later, I talked to another engineer who I had much closer social relationship with, a Pakistani-American, who I knew (or so I thought) to be a very moderate Muslim about my lunchtime conversation with Mike. He told me that he “had tried to talk to him many times on way to temple” but had been unsuccessful in moderating Mike’s views. But he understood where Mike was coming from because he had once held such views. This “confession” came as somewhat of a shock to me: you see Val was educated in Pakistan at an American-run school.

I desperately want to believe that Mike represents only a fringe element but the more that I read about incidents, watch Muslim spokesman on TV, and view on the internet some more candid moments captured on amateur video the more I wonder if we have allow millions of people to come into this country that hate, if not alright despise, this nation. I believe that we will, as the Chinese curse goes, soon be “living in interesting times.”

[ron]

Have a friend from palistine that lost her family home to the jews when she
went on vacation. Upon her return she was changed to a homeless person.
Yep she does not like jews.

[P. Ingemi]

Of course this should surprise nobody. In a culture that values face more than truth it is impossible to admit one's failures and blame for such must be directed elsewhere.

As for the Jews, I figure it this way. They will always be hated, they are destened to be hated. Any people choosen by God can't help but be despised by man.

It called to mind the fameous quote from "Fiddler on the Roof":

“I know we are the Chosen People,” he laments, “But couldn’t You choose someone else every once in awhile?”

[Bob]

http://www.albawaba.com/headlines/TheNews.php3?action=story&sid=261490&lang=e&dir=news

Here's the link someone above tried to link to about a whackjob in the Muslim world who was blabbering about the Illuminati and trying to change around the Malaysian PM's words.

What gets me, are the atheists and greens and socialists who are basically in lockstep with the Islamifascists to undermine any western government. Don't they realise that they too are targets of these fanatics? Don't they realise that they will be summarily executed or tortured to death if they don't convert?

[Joshua]

Hi there.
I just followed a link to this page from Rambling Rhodes, so I'm new. Normally I'd hold off commenting in a new blog but pissing in the wind is actually a favorite pastime of mine so I'm just going to throw out some quick rhetorical and historical rejoinders here. Since nobody else who reads this blog seems to disagree with any of the views presented in this comment string (excepting, of course, Ron) I assume I'll be torn to shreds but whatever.
It's only the internet.

So, just for a goof, let's look at how Moslems are discussed in this comments string:

"those deluded and deceived Muslims"
"They will never be citizens. It's like having a coyote on your property."
"Islam is a virus, a virulent and incurable disease"
"the Muslim culture hasn't contributed very much art, culture, or science in a few hundred years"
...and so on.
All of which I find, well... interesting. Undoubtedly none of it strikes most readers as terribly inappropriate because they think it's all true. And that's interesting to me because there are so many examples of times when this kind of talk has been leveled at other groups for other reasons and history has taught us to be embarrassed about it after the fact. But people keep doing it, and their main defense seems to be, "Yeah, but this time it's true!" Which, I believe, suggests a fairly shallow analysis. Given the damage such talk has caused in the past, I'm surprised people are still so free with it in the present.
But frightened people are often incautious so really, I suppose, I shouldn't be so shocked. And of course, it's easy for Westerners to be frightened of Moslems. It was easy before 9/11 and the events that have unfolded since have only added fuel to the fire.

Which, if you'll pardon a small digression, brings me to my first question: do y'all know about Doctor Yacub?
Doctor Yacub is the antagonist of what has to be one of the most ridiculously contrived metaphysical conspiracy theories in modern history. He's the devil figure in the mythology of the American Nation of Islam, which bears the same relationship to real Islam that SPAM has to a pig, and the doctrine of hate that spawned Doctor Yacub was the stuff of nightmares for Anglo America in the 1950's and 60's. Without going into too much detail, suffice it to say that a doctrinal belief in the existence of Doctor Yacub was enough to convince many Americans that African Americans in general and the Nation of Islam in particular were a breed apart; a collection of violent xenophobic lunatics that could never be equal partners in American society.
Not that it took much convincing. In 1960 the United States still had, for example, anti-miscegenation laws. Schools were segregated. The armed forces were segregated. Everything was segregated and Black people lived in a world most Anglo Americans couldn't even imagine. So it wasn't too hard, with Doctor Yacub in hand, to convince mainstream White America that African Americans needed to be kept well in hand; slapped down and made to respect the rules of American society.
In retrospect, it seems perfectly obvious that the rampant extremism of the Nation of Islam was a byproduct of the extreme racism of American society in general. And, while it was easy to hold Elijah Muhammad and his Doctor Yacub mythology up as an example of why everyone should be afraid of Black people, the tactic that turned out to be infinitely more effective in circumventing the hate doctrines of Elijah Muhammad and friends was to remove the social and political injustices that had incited them.
Of course, this story is far from over. The NOI still exists; still claims a large and diverse membership; still commands enough power to call the Million Man March. But that m ay have something to do with the fact that Alabama had an anti-miscegenation clause in its state constitution until 1999.

Historically speaking, I believe it's fair to say that most "hate doctrine" movements among disenfranchised people have some impetus, often even a clear motivation, in the form of an antagonizing doctrine of oppression on the part of those who have power over them. To write them off simply as fanatics or to espouse a corrective doctrine of increased suppression and military intervention is to ignore the abundant advice of history. And no victory won through such means can last: eventually, it all comes back to bite us in the ass. Look at Iran. Look at Guatemala. Look what happened in the States with oppression of African American civil rights movements.
And hey, I know he was a Democrat and everything, but Kennedy was onto something when he said "those who make a peaceful revolution impossible make a violent revolution inevitable."

And yeah. I'm sure nobody's listening.

Let me just boil it down to this for you: Just because the Moslems are paranoid doesn't mean nobody's out to get them.

K?

[Tripp]

With stories like this, it is amazing that we thought we could go to Iraq and develop a stable democracy friendly to the US. We would have to undo years of brainwashing. If we did somehow do that, the rest of the ME would turn on Iraq as if it was Israel.

[Spoons]

As I read your story, Matt, I had a sickening fear that it was gonna end with something like, "I'm still friends with Masood, but we've avoided talking about politics since then."

I know so many people who would have reacted that way (and have in similar situations). It's to your great credit that you didn't take that way out. Someone who would remain friends with such a creature as the man you describe is a moral coward and deserving of contempt.

[Blackfive]

Thanks, Spoons. I appreciate the sentiment.

[angua]

Dear ron,

Have a friend who was raped by a man once. Yup, she hates all men. Including YOU, ron. You sure deserve all that hatred, ron. Even though you were likely not even on the planet when it happened. Certainly if she chooses to kill you, ron, it will be perfectly understandable, since the rape was your fault, ron.

In other words, can you really not see that it may be wrong to lump all people of a certain ethnic group together to get blamed for something one of them did?

[Joshua]

Yeah Ron. Don't lump all people of a certain ethnic group together to get blamed for something a few of them did. Unless they're, like, Arabs. In which case lump away.

[voxel]

Could we now have a story about a Christian who hates the Jewish too - how one could believe the Holocaust happened because they didn't believe in JC and his resurrection? From a normal well-adjusted Christian too. Let's throw in an Atheist-hates-Jews story too. The paintbrush of hatred through your story splashes too broadly - similar to saying the world hates Americans (not true, but there is a vocal minority).

[Dave Paglia]

Voxel- yeah, because we can't forget all those Quaker suicide bombers, and all those Mormons who hijack airliners, and those Maronites that were responsible for the first World Trade Centerr bombing, and those Amish rat bastards who cut Danny Pearl's throat (giggling all the while) because he was Jewish and they had him helpless... why, I can't count the times tht my Unitarian buddies would sit around and explain to me how their mullah (oops...meant to say "priest") ahd told them that the Jews were a cancer and should be exterminated, just like it says in Unitarian holy scripture...
Get the point yet? Don't expect ME to put on blinkers because of YOUR desire to be multicultural.

[Tatterdemalian]

"Of course, this story is far from over. The NOI still exists; still claims a large and diverse membership; still commands enough power to call the Million Man March. But that may have something to do with the fact that Alabama had an anti-miscegenation clause in its state constitution until 1999."

There comes a point when a claim of discrimination is so obviously just a pathetic ploy to maintain the aura of victimhood that nobody believes it any longer. The Nation of Islam, and Joshua for that matter, has long passed that point. Most black Alabamians didn't even realize the miscegnation clause was still on the books until Holmes made a big issue of it. While I favored its removal, to pretend it actually had a real-world effect, even just impinging an aura of inferiority upon the African-American psyche, is to overstate the case by several orders of magnitude.

At this point, all you're doing is crying "wolf" every time you see a rabbit. Don't be surprised, once the real wolves take notice of you, if everybody ignores your cries until long after you've been reduced to dog poop.

[Blackfive]

Voxel - I am not a very religious guy, but I don't remember the last time that I heard the Pope or the ArchBishop of Canterbury declare jihad? Did I miss it?

[Tatterdemalian]

"Voxel - I am not a very religious guy, but I don't remember the last time that I heard the Pope or the ArchBishop of Canterbury declare jihad? Did I miss it?"

It was a metaphorical jihad, fought by simile soldiers over a bombastic battleground for allegorical annihalation of the invective infidel. Of course, ordinary people could not percieve it, so that makes me very special that I could understand what's really going on. In addition, by pretending that figurative fighting is just as deadly as the literal equivalent, I can claim to be a noble warrior who saved us all from the homonym holocaust, without ever actually having to risk any wounds nastier than a papercut. Truly, I am the alliterative action hero of our time!

[David Smith]

Our Jewish family spent ten years living next to a Muslum family. Never was there a single moment of contention. We shared much of our lives together. After 9/11 everyone in the family blamed the Jews for the incident and chanted that the Jews control everything in every discussion. We never guessed that this sentiment lay beneath the surface of a family that we used to hold so dear.

[Joshua]

TatterD: Cute. Do you know any tricks that involve critical thinking or are they all just rhetorical?

I invoked the anti-miscegenation law because I believe it was emblematic of a certain lack of follow through in the United States as regards the work begun during the civil rights movement. Many large obstacles to civil rights for African Americans were removed, but many subtler ones were left in place. The anti-miscegenation law is a useful example in the sense that it's something that existed on the books, in spite of a U.S. Supreme Court decision overturning such laws. This makes it valuable as an example because it's tangible. Many of the less tangible manifestations of the poor state of civil rights reform in the United States are much more disturbing, particularly as they relate to police conduct. You call it crying wolf. I say tell it to Amadou Diallo.

Now then. Did you want to address my larger point, or was your attention span not quite up to the task?

[Joshua]

"Voxel - I am not a very religious guy, but I don't remember the last time that I heard the Pope or the ArchBishop of Canterbury declare jihad? Did I miss it?"

Blackfive: well, there was that whole, "Vatican formally apologizes for complicity in the Holocaust" thing. But don't let me mess with your world view; by all means, continue in your apparent belief that only Moslems and Nazis are anti-Semitic.

[Sherry]

A friend of mine just who spent two weeks in Pakistan visiting a "friend" met over the internet had the same experience. He returned with the view that all the Muslims he met there wanted the destruction of Israel and blamed "the Jews" for every problem in the world.

[Blackfive]

Joshua- First, you would hard pressed to defend any culture or religion in terms of it's pure goodness. If you want to go back far enough, no one institution, religion, or culture is blameless.

Second, I don't think anyone doubts that there are plenty of Christians or atheists or even buddists that are anti-semitic. Get a grip...

Third, it's about Common Sense. Try using that rather than big, PhD type words and maybe someone will hear what you are trying to say...

[Gary]

Let me guess - ole' Joshie here is a college student or recent graduate with a major in something that ends in 'studies'. His mastery of the Chomsky/Krugman rhetorical snarkiness and his 'racist America deserves what it got' theme reek of recent immersion in the cesspool of the academy. Josh, m'boy, when the time comes you'll find that America isn't nearly as racist as you thought. Traitors of all colors will be dealt with equally.

[Joshua]

Hey Gary? You're so far wrong, it's embarrassing. I learned about race relations in America by going to an inner city high school with a 50% African American student body. I've been on my own since my dad died when I was 17 (without a penny to his name, so I started out with nothing) and I spent ten years working my way through college, doing every kind of shitty low-paying job known to man and surviving on top ramen and macaroni and cheese. And no, my degree doesn't end in "studies". Just a plain old English degree. Not much more useful than a "studies" degree, but less bourgeois at any rate. I'm 31, I'm a home owner, and I've worked hard for everything I've ever gotten. So you'll have to peddle that "doesn't know anything about the real world" shit somewhere else. Sorry.

Blackfive:
One: this kind of argument really pisses me off. In my experience it's commonly employed as a defense by people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. So somebody says something about the Pope or the Archbishop not being anti-Semitic and you point out that, actually, the Catholic church does have a fairly recent history of being anti-Semitic and they go, "Oh, well that was a long time ago!" Tell you what-- why don't you tell me what your expiration date on history is. That way when we're writing back and forth I won't use examples you think of as being historically irrelevant and you won't have to know anything about the subject matter your discussing.

Two: Actually, it seemed to me that it was exactly the anti-Semitism of various Christian groups you were debating with that crack about not remembering the last time the Pope or the Archbishop declared jihad. If you'd care to put another spin on it maybe I'll correct my approach.

Three: I'm sorry, did you just tell me to use small words so you can understand me?
You know, I'm horrified by the uses right wing populists have put the term "Common Sense" to in the last forty years. This anti-intellectual "use small words and don't confuse me" approach to politics is worse than impractical-- it's disingenuous. You know what common sense is? Common sense is, "Of course the Palestinians hate the Israelis-- the Israelis immigrated to Palestine, where Arabs had lived for thousands of years, stole the Arabs' land, murdered their people and robbed them of political autonomy." That's common sense. If you wanna debate that, I'm afraid your going to have to use big words. At a minimum.

[Blackfive]

Joshua, now you are just being belligerent. No one denies that anti-semitism permeated all countries, cultures and religions. I did mention that if you go back far enough in any culture or religion, you find something to blame them for. I wasn't debating you. This isn't high school. The fact that you put words in my mouth because of my Pope declaring jihad comment just points out how ridiculous you are. Por ejemplo, you are trying to equate the Pope with Osamma? Are you out of your flippin' mind? Really.

As for big words, how about this so you can understand...the Arabs chose the wrong side during WWII. They are choosing the wrong side now.

Your comments to Gary make it pretty evident that you are looking for "attention".

I'll take Common Sense over bullshit rhetoric anyday.

[Stormi]

"Of course the Palestinians hate the Israelis-- the Israelis immigrated to Palestine, where Arabs had lived for thousands of years, stole the Arabs' land, murdered their people and robbed them of political autonomy." That's common sense.

That, Joshie, is complete and utter bullshit. Do you deny over four thousand years of Jewish history? Do you dispute the plain, simple and true fact that Jerusalem is the capital of the nation of Israel? Not just now, but at least two thousand years ago, when it was sacked by the Romans and the Temple destroyed? I have been in Rome, I have seen the arch in the Foro Romano commemorating said sacking and destruction of the Temple. In one of the panels is sculpted a relief of the carrying off of the Temple's treasures, a menorah clearly visible. That's what is known as corroborating evidence, Joshie.

You wallow in your ignorance like a pig in mud, Joshie boy, as though you enjoy it. I think Blackfive has your number though... you're just looking for attention.

[rumcrook]

wow josh thats a wonderfully lopsided fabrication of events in pre israeli state, palistine.

its really sad when someone views history through a discollered lens of propaganda.

[tictoc]

In response to another commenter, I like the design of Blackfive's web page just fine, and hope he does not change it.

[mahim]

It's hard to know where to begin. But after reading the post and the comments above, I have to say that hatred is not unknown to those lamenting the views of some Moslems.
I am a proud Moslem of Pakistani, Arab, and British heritage. I have lived in Britain, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, and am presently a medical student at Oxford University. Much of my extended family is American, and I have had the pleasure of visiting them in the U.S. on many occasions. You have a beautiful country - it has much to be proud of.
Following the shameful calamity that was 9/11, the hatred my (very American) cousins have had to withstand is abominable, and I have to say, I am stunned and saddened by the views of Moslems, Christians, and Jews alike the world over. My notions are far from idealistic, but I don't believe in Bush's terroristic strategy of going to war against anyone who doesn't like him. I don't think many do.
My closest life-long friends are of all colours and religions: Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Sikh, (Welsh ;)). Sometimes we don't agree on everything, but that doesn't prevent us from having an open discussion. And it certainly doesn't fill us with the need to go to war against each other.
But there are a few concepts which shouldn't be difficult to understand in an educated mind:

- about seven Palestinians die a violent death as a result of one Israeli death
- or, one Israeli dies as a result of seven Palestinian deaths
- this is unacceptable
- there were no weapons of mass destruction
- no Iraqi has ever been implicated in an international act of terrorism
- there will always be differences of opinion; it is up to those with the power to reach out to the masses (like bloggers) to encourage peaceful dialogue and reduce the spread of false terror.

The ignorance of many in developing countries is at times shocking, but I am more concerned about the ignorance amongst those in the 'first world'. I'm not going to preach religion here, I doubt it would penetrate the minds of many, but I will state the four sources of Islamic law as a guide:

1. The Quran
2. The doings and sayings of the Prophet (pbuh)
3. The consensus of opinion
4. A person's own conscience.

Notice the absence of 'ignorant so-called Imam'.
I am a Moslem because I understand Islam. There are many Moslems that understand only the view of the only person in the village who can read the Quran, and he uses his literacy as a political tool. But they are starving, unsheltered, oppressed, illiterate, and very angry. And somewhere in an ever shrinking world there is a huge country with beautiful tall buildings and people with plenty to eat, all of whom can read and write, who look nice and have good clothes to wear. And, many of them hate you.
I take offence at the descriptions I read of Pakistani culture. Military dictatorship is not an ideal, but in a land riddled with corruption, for now it is the only way forward. Over 55% of Pakistan's short 56-year life has been dominated by military rule. Alas, it is only under military rule that we have ever seen economic progress.
My great-grandfather (an Indian) attended the University of Glasgow. My grandmother was Pakistan's first female lawyer. My grandfather topped the University of Sheffield. My mother is a doctor, my aunts are highly educated professionals who have travelled the world. They are what I am reminded of when I hear the word Pakistan.
Many immediate family members are Generals in Pakistan's well trained army. Some have spent time as Prisoner's of War in the horrendous conditions prevailing in Indian jails, following the succession of Bangladesh. They know what war and cruelty is.
Alcohol is available in Pakistan to any non-Muslim (the availability of alcohol always seems to be a sore point among those discussing the freedom within a land), tourists resorts are stunningly beautiful, people are overwhelmingly friendly and hospitable. A tiny country, but Pakistan is home to almost all landforms - beautiful forests, mountains, deserts, and plains. If you haven't been there, you really can't comment.
My parents worked as British doctors (haematologist and general practitioner) for the Ministry of Defence in Saudi Arabia on a large military cantonment during both Gulf Wars. All parts of the world that I am from seem to be in constant unrest. America tasted war for a day and is still in shock. People hate the offenders, and they know they have a right to. Then why do you blame Iraqis for hating the power behind the sanctions that have crippled their children?
Is the CIA not intelligent enough to remove Saddam without waging bloody war?
I have an immense respect for the military profession. The only reason I will not be joining military service myself is that I do not believe in British (=American) foreign policy. It makes me sick.
May your family live a long, prosperous, and peaceful life. No true Moslem would wish peace-loving people anything but. I am sorry to hear that you are against me. I hope you have the wisdom to overcome this hatred.
God bless you, and yes, Allah be praised! Happy Ramadan, Mahim

[Dave Paglia]

We still remember watching the lovely, innocent Palistinian people dancing in the streets after September 11. We still remember watching rescue crews try to clean up after a Palestinian blew himself up in a bus full of children. Our sympathy for anything...ANYTHING... that happens to Palestine or its people is real damn limited.
If Palestine wanted peace, they could have had it in 1948. They chose war. Now they don't like the consequences of defeat and are trying to change the verdict of history with murder.
My sympathies are real damn limited.

[mahim]

It doesn't matter - I'm not sure it's sympathy they're after. And in any case, their sympathies are limited too.

[Blackfive]

Hi Mahim. Thanks for visiting.

No matter how bad someone has is it in another part of the world, it doesn't give them the right to fly an airplane into a building and kill thousands of people. Those that celebrate it, well, let's just say I won't ever forget the celebrations in certain places.

I have been to Peshawahr and Islamabad. About 20 years ago. It has nothing to do with my story. You are obviously well educated. Do you blame the Jews for everything? Well, do you?

Do you believe that the Mossad was behind 9/11? Well, do you?

I wasn't going to post this story about Masood until the Malaysian Prime Minister spoke his idiotic words. I think it's time that people understood that the hatred for Christians and Jews is very, very deep and is not penetrable in a lot of cases.

And using foreign policy as an excuse to not serve in the military doesn't really make me very sympathetic to you. Obviously, you don't feel like you are British, do you?

Why don't you move to France? They sound like they might be more your style.

[Ryan]

Just for the record, I've known Joshua for quite some time now, and we argue one another like it's going out of style, or, more appropriately, like a pit bull and a badger. We disagree on pretty much, well, everything. He bumped into this site thanks to a link from my site, and I can see through the comments that you're dismissing him like he's blind. He's not. And he's NOT looking for attention. He's looking for discussion. Take him up on it, and I think you'll find yourselves forced to fine-tune your position. Because he's right, and he's wrong, and it's up to you to decide which. And, trust me, you'll learn something.

[mahim]

The discussion continues on my blog. I do hope you visit.

[mustapha]

salamuALAIKUM MY BROTHERS IN ISLAM

[Nazir Ahmed-Attorney at Law]

Dars & Dars Law Associates-Pakistan
Law firm,Consultants,Legal Advisers

[Nazir Ahmed-Attorney at Law]

Dars & Dars Law Associates - Pakistan

[Meban]

Niccceee pagee

[Nazir Ahmed]

Dars & Dars Law Associates-Pakistan
Law Firm,Consultants,Legal Advisers

[Nazir Ahmed]

Dars & Dars Law Associates-Pakistan
Law Firm,Consultants,Legal Advisers

[Mr. Potatohead]

No, this was not surprising in the least. Jews have been blamed for everything since the dawn of history. They are blamed for the death of Jesus, in the middle ages forming life-sucking communities that drained European economies, for a number of rare genetic diseases that they unleashed unto the population through inbreeding, and more recently for Nixon's early retirement though their ability to control and spin the media that Americans are watching [ex. Fox News]. Notice none of the above was actually accusations of Muslims!!!!

It needs to be said that conspiracy theories are nothing new, and definitely not characteristic of Muslim populations, NOR is it a defining characteristic of Islam.

It may make for interesting inflammatory talk and are the tool for recruitment of the gullible. Much like the Israelis use their hatred of Palestinians, conspiracy theories can serve to unite groups against common enemies. It is not difficult however to see how these theories can be easily created of believed.

Unless any of this actually leads to action, however, it is just conversation, and banter of the uneducated gullible masses.

It is important to note however, that much of this animosity is fairly modern, as Muslims in pre-colonial eras were in fact inviting of Jews AND Christians. To cite a few examples, read up on the fact that the Muslims allowed the Jews to return to Spain after their exile by Christian rules, or how Saladin sent over his personal physicians to treat the sick King Richard the Lion heart soon after he conquered Saladin’s costal city of Acre in the midst of the crusades.

In addition, I have to say that Muslims in general are not anti-Semitic. This is a popular media spin to create hatred towards Muslims. To say they are is to incorporate hatred to the Palestinians (the other Semites). Instead, it is fair to say that most are anti-Zionism: that is against the occupation of Israel, and the notion of a totally Jewish "Holy Land" - which historical spreads from the Egyptian Sinai, past the river Jordan and way up into Iraq. To say that Israel has no interest in these regions is cast a blind eye to the history of the Middle East. Equally, they are not generally anti-Christian either, but are typically against supporters of Israeli occupation. For this reason, as an American, I believe our support of Israel has only proven to be a liability. Billions of dollars each year in aid, and billions more in combative arms are given to Israel to further the brutal subjugation of Palestinians, only so that the haltered of Palestinians comes back to haunt us.

Israel deliberately has waged war on the Muslim peoples, if not with their bombing of an Iranian power plant, or with the constant and recent incursions on the "Temple Mount" (- the new Israeli spin on the Dome of the Rock) they justify their actions by claiming they are rounding up suspects, and using rubber bullets. Evidently, collateral damage was not an issue, as the third holiest site in Islam, which can accomodate hunderds of thousands of belivers on a Friday, Sabbath is raided. You, the reader, will be quick to write this off as a result of War. War, which Israel invokes when convenient.

Now, this probably can be easily dismissed by the reader, but when you have had an 18 year old Israeli soldier shove the nozzle of his M-16 up your nose because you were laughing too loud on a bus stop as I have well experienced, you don't really need conspiracy theories to justify your claims of treachery.

One thing I do know for sure is that a defining principle in Islam is demanding to do good deeds for humanity as a whole, and always rejecting and putting down treachery.

[vicky]

i love this site

[Enar]

Forget what the israelis are doing to the Muslim Palestnians.Look at what they do to your Christian brothers and sisters in Palestine.If your read in the papers many Christian churches in Bethlahem have been bombed.(If you think Im bluffing go to Bethlahem and see what the CHRISTIANS of that city tell you)But instead of condeming that Churches in America continue to support anti-Chrisitan i$rael.And if America isn't controlled by i$rael howcome the USA spends billions of dollars from AMERICAN taxpayers on i$rael.And what does i$rael do for America?NOTHING!!Did i$rael send evan a 100 troops to help fight in Afghanistan or Iraq?There are Americans who feel the same way about zionism.Read David Duke's articles CAREFULLY before BLINDLY you label it "ANTI-SEMETIC".

[news-]

news

[Sab]

i have just read the article above concerning the converstaion between the muslims and this matt character
yes me being a muslim in the U.K can see alot of descrimantion agaisnt us form all the sides of the world today.
and not coz i am a muslim i agree i meand drinking alcohol has brought me shame.
but the reason why i agreee is because it is a KNOWN FACT that the 9/11 stuff happend what a coincedence that the jews were not present that day and i do not blame bin laden. and if u know i do not knw but a few months ago a documentry was shown in uk saying how the arabs nlabeld 'terrorists' went and got all the traning down beforre the 9pf the 11 etc.
but an intresting documentry was shown some days later showing the amerciand had all this and NO IT WAS NOT a documnetry with all muslims in it
It hads many non muslims agreeing to this point.
and YES amercains are the poppets of the jews
believe thor not thats not the point but its a fact whihc many people are blind to today.
who owns mcdonalds,marks and spencer sainsbury thsi are a few of the shops in UK top brands and held by the JEWS.
and one should not have a row just coz he friends have a different view and some times you should here them out not just disagree and bang never be friends!!

[mariyam]

After reading what you have written, i just wana say, this friend of yours is GAY, this is forbidden in islam, it is haram, so he cant talk!!

Also he drinks alcohol, what type of muslim drinks alcohol!!! that you cannot call a muslim, this is what u call a muslim by name not by practice.AS-STAK-FURULA!!

like every cutre, religion, gangs, sub cultres even crews there alway some good some bad, NO-ONE IS PERFECT!!!!

i feel though you have put this on the web so that you portrate muslims in a negitive way, not that your the 1st.

think about it, the tragedy of 9/11, all those people who died,
WHERE WERE THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!!!
why was it on this particular day there were no JEWS at work????? WHY???
DOESNT THIS SAY SOMETHING!!
it wasnt like they were celebrating a festival that they'd all be absent that day....
THINK ABOUT IT!!

THE MEDIA doesnt represent muslims in a positive way, this is the truth!!
this is why the people of today are unaware of the truth,and they are believing the state and what they hear on t.v, not knowing that the government is controlling what we are allowed to hear and what we are not allowed to hear!! by doing this they are able to cover up and manipulate the TRUTH!!
your a christian (i apoligize if im wrong) i read it from ur article, so you believe in the hereafter, so take this world as it comes and jus see those who told the truth and acted upon it will go to paridice inshallah unlike those who did not believe.

Each religion has its own belief, there is always some discrimination against another rellgion of some sort no mater how much you say there isnt. So like i said take it as it comes!!

MARIYAM

[SHAN]

HI EVERY BODY ITS NICE HERE WITH ALL OF U

[tahir]

i wana a good girl friend.

[Fatih Syuhud]

hi matt, i think we can discuss further about the so-called anti-semitism and about what u think about islam and muslim (spare little time to my blog at http://afsyuhud.blogspot.com).

btw, im an indonesian muslim, now in india. for introduction to further discussion: keep in mind that islam is not a monolitic religion. the principle concept of islam is the same everywhere. the practice of islam is different from country to country. so, to conclude that u r facing 1.6 billion bigots r a bit extravagance of a word. :) calm down and smile. u need to know more about islam and muslim.

[the Dude]

Hi Matt,
Sorry you got yourself an intolerant bigot for a friend (so you tell us). I am not sure that ones level of education or wealth somehow makes one immune to bigotry (that applies to people of all faiths etc).
I think though using your experience to condemn 1.6 billion people is rather extreme. The rivalry between Islam and Christianity has been going on for thousands of years and will continue long after we are gone...you think maybe your radical conclusion about muslims has something to do with that? After all you are the product of a culture that kinda skirted the issue of the existence of a massive religion (other than some negative media images)..until now.
Christianity and Islam are both great religions and neither is going away. Spreading hatred about another great religion is like asking for it...for either side...
'Us against them?' Jesus..dont you think that with that attitude you are looking for a fight? I think maybe you need a history lesson to learn that the damage is not gonna be anything but bilateral.
Sorry Matt..dont see too much of a difference between your 'friend' Masood and you. For him all Jews are bad guys and for you its all Muslims. BIGOTRY IS BIGOTRY

[Ibro]

To be honest with all of you what they did say is true, many others n i believe that but still i dont hate the Jews...1SLAM teaches us to respect other religions and that all human beings are part of GODs creation and they're all equal...those muslims who hate others are not the muslims according to GOD, the majestic Qu'ran or the life and teachings of the last prophet(SAW)...Masood and hes brother appear to me as westernised muslims as they drink and not respect other people...and for you who believe that it is Al-Qaeda responsible for September 11 attacks watch this documentary by an American who believes that their own people have been lied to about the terrorist attacks...IN PLANE SITE 9/11 DIRECTORS CUT ::: link http://nadeem.lightuponlight.com/ ::: Then scroll down to find it at the bottom by right clicking on it and selecting save as

[faatima]

aalamualaikum/peace
hey i think masood and his bro opinion and position to the jews are coeect in some cases as for the 9/11 they are wrong. ppl already claimed responsibiliy sooo leave it at that. yes ariel is taking steps to remove from gaza strip after the millions of muslims were given not even 1/4 of what the israelis had, after so much years of. this proof that they shoud have used. i realy would live to speak to the post this the ex friend of masood.
peace

[sohaeb ahmad]

Salam , me a new muslim from england , My parents left me just for accepting islam, now i am alone , i need friends, brothers and sisters in islam which can help me in every way , salam and Alah hafes

[jew get fucked]

Im like evryone to know in Alkeida or whatever you guys decide to call urself to kill as much jewish americans as possible. Hell if you are attacking Ameriva u might as well be killing jews,,,, Everyone hates them so it wouldnt be much of a problem. No pace

[taimur]

Listen to my words people! I am a muslim and the truth is that islam teaches us not to hate anybody, so next time a brown man like me comes upto you and says "jews suck" or "americans suck" he is not a muslim, the problem is that most of the muslim world comprise of illiterate people or have parents who have brainwashed their children. and oh yeah! if a muslim tell u that u r bad and u suk dont say that the whole pop. of muslims suk, feel free to say that that guy sucks. Final word!: Whether u r a jew or a christian or a muslim and u say that another of these groups suk that mean u suk cuz we worship the same god........!